Hamata Seminar

[Doc]

Ave,

I will be giving a seminar on Roman armor specifically curiasses and will introduce the various types, how they were probably made, function, period of use etc.

Of course, the attention catcher will be photos of the armor. Naturally, with few exceptions, we presume certain appearances to be based on sculpture as cautious as one needs to be.

Hamata has been shown as straight bottom, musculata shaped at the lower edge, long, short etc. How about a van dyke edge......the bottom edge and sleeves edges look like the teeth of a saw? Is there any sculptural evidence for this at all with respect to mail.

I saw Trajan's Column and a soldier wearing a hamata had a toothed lower edge but upon closer inspection, it appeared to be not from mail but a different material since it was not chased in the same manner that mail was portrayed.

Aside from this, I have not seen anything other then what I described.

Iideas, evidence, photos?

Any help would be appreciated

Thank you

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Ave,

I will be giving a seminar on Roman armor specifically curiasses and will introduce the various types, how they were probably made, function, period of use etc.

Of course, the attention catcher will be photos of the armor. Naturally, with few exceptions, we presume certain appearances to be based on sculpture as cautious as one needs to be.

Hamata has been shown as straight bottom, musculata shaped at the lower edge, long, short etc. How about a van dyke edge......the bottom edge qnd sleeves look like the teeth of a saw? Is there any sculptural evidence for this at all?

I saw Trajan's Column and a soldier wearing a hamata had a toothed lower edge but upon closer inspection, it appeared to be not from mail but a different material since it was not chased in the same manner that mail was portrayed.

Aside from this, I have not seen anything other then what I described.

Ideas, evidence, photos?

Any help would be appreciated

Thank you

[Nathan Ross]

I saw Trajan's Column and a soldier wearing a hamata had a toothed lower edge but upon closer inspection, it appeared to be not from mail but a different material since it was not chased in the same manner that mail was portrayed.

Do you mean this one?



The lower hem of the hamata has what looks like a cord around it, but the sleeves show, I think, that the scalloped edges are part of the mail and not something worn underneath.

[Doc]

Hello Nathan,

There is this one but the edges are rounded. There is another where they are pointed but it looks similar to this.

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You are correct that in this photo that the sleeves are part of the mail in terms of the design but not the lower edge. I wonder though if that would have been in reality the way it was. I would venture to assume the whole thing would be the same.

It would be great if there was.some evidence showing a mail shirt with the edges anything other than smooth.

[john m roberts]

Some soldier figures on the column of Marcus Aurelius wear cuirasses with dagged lower hems. Some of these are clearly squamatae, but others may be stylized mail.

[Doc]

Thanks for the reply.

Any evidence for 1st century

[Nathan Ross]

the sleeves are part of the mail in terms of the design but not the lower edge.  I wonder though if that would have been in reality the way it was.  I would venture to assume the whole thing would be the same.  

It would be great if there was.some evidence showing a mail shirt with the edges anything other than smooth.

The mail clearly goes right up to the edges of the scallops on the sleeves - there would be no reason for the sculptor to carve the detail of the links if it did not do this in reality.

The lower hem is less clear but I believe it is the same - there's some sort of cord worn around the waist (a drawstring, perhaps?), but the scalloped hem is not smooth and it looks to me like the mail extends right to the edge.

Alternatively, the line around the bottom of the hamata may indicate that the scalloped hem area is a decorative edging of brass links, as we sometimes see on surviving mail fragments from Dura and other places.

[Dan Howard]

Trajan's Column has so many problems that performing this kind of analysis is pointless. Better to look at other monuments.

[Alanus]

Tribunus Analretentivus,

"Listen up, soldiers! It's perfectly acceptable to have scalloped edges at hamate sleeve ends.
However, if you wear scalloped edges along the lower edges of hamate, you will be severly punished... and reassigned to a unit in Pannonia! Understand?"

Soldiers in F-Troop,
"Yes, sir! I understand perfectly."
"I was thinking about scalloped edges, but I changed my mind."
"I knew an auxiliary who had a cousin in Legio Victorix, who knew a primus pilus in Legio III who trimmed his hamata in scallops. He was sent to Durustorum... and never returned.

[Doc]

Hello,

For some reason even though I checked off to be notified of any replies, I did not get the last two posts. I too wondered if the hamata in that scalloped fashion was not for auxiliaries.....if I am understanding you point correctly.
Over the years however, I have begun to look at things differently. If auxiliaries wore something, who is to say the legionaries never wore any of the same equipment.

Yes, Trajan's column does have several issues. However, I would not dismiss it as quickly as many folks do......for reasons that would go off-topic .

[Flavivs Aetivs]

the sleeves are part of the mail in terms of the design but not the lower edge.  I wonder though if that would have been in reality the way it was.  I would venture to assume the whole thing would be the same.  

It would be great if there was.some evidence showing a mail shirt with the edges anything other than smooth.

The mail clearly goes right up to the edges of the scallops on the sleeves - there would be no reason for the sculptor to carve the detail of the links if it did not do this in reality.

The lower hem is less clear but I believe it is the same - there's some sort of cord worn around the waist (a drawstring, perhaps?), but the scalloped hem is not smooth and it looks to me like the mail extends right to the edge.

Alternatively, the line around the bottom of the hamata may indicate that the scalloped hem area is a  decorative edging of brass links, as we sometimes see on surviving mail fragments from Dura and other places.

I somewhat agree with Dan Howard that we are looking at a Subarmalis here. I do not agree that the hamata had an integrated liner: what I see is that the "waistcord" or "rope" is not a waistcord but the hem of the hamata, and the scalloping below that line is part of his subarmalis. The scalloped hem is textured but it is rather clearly, in my opinion, not the same as the texturing of the hamata itself.