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Hellenistic Swords
#1
I'm a lover of the Hellenistic era, specifically Ptolemaic Egypt. However, I have found it impossible to determine what swords were commonplace during this era. The Ptolemaic kings supplied their troops weaponry however I've seen no finds of specific swords from Egypt during this period.We know the xiphos was used throughout the classical era into the Hellenistic and the kopis really caught on. But in the artifacts and art I've seen neither of the 2 are depicted. Examples below. So help me out, what swords were these guys using?


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Zack Looney
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#2
Ave, Aegyptie Amice! I don't know what it is either, but here's my guess: Ptolemaic Egypt (like many successor states) was known to hire Celtic mercenaries from Galatia who would have fought with their own native equipment. Maybe it's something based off a Galatian sword that this particular soldier liked? It looks like a short sword to me, which Celts weren't usually fond of due to their fighting style (story for another time). Maybe it's based off of some native Egyptian design? The picture's description says he was from Sidon, so it may have been some Phoenician design even. Or maybe it's just a generic sword that the artist put in the picture because he didn't want to have to go through the painstaking work of putting a detailed sword on our friend Dioscourides' (spellcheck that, the pic is blurry) tomb. Again, I don't know what it is, but I hope this somehow is useful, be it a starting point for more research or just something to think on for 5 minutes.
HONOR VICTORIAQVE TECVM

John F.
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#3
After a bit of searching found this:
"Funerary Stele of Dioscourides Balboura"
"Stele with a rectangular niche framed between two wide Doric lozenges.
A beardless soldier, ready for the battle, moves toward left; he appears in profile, the left leg forward, the right tensioned. The left arm bears a long oval shield, while the right hand, raised behind his head, is holding a sword with a triangular blade; the sword’s sheath hangs on his left side. The soldier is equipped with a short tunic, a helmet decorated with a volute and plumes; his feet are protected by tall and laced boots".

Source: Catalogue Mendel, Tome 1 (page 259), Notice 0102*

Painted limestone
From Sidon, Lebanon
Istanbul; Archaeological Museum

see here for a nice pic:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/69716881@N02/8354468649/

The sword seems to have one of those three lobed pommels recently discussed on a sword from Egypt... The shield would I think be typical Hellenistic at this time as is the helmet.... it also looks to me like he's wearing some from of body armour, would need a closer look...

for more info see this thread here:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/17-roman-mi...mitstart=0

The Ptolemaic Army: Seleucid and Ptolemaic Reformed Armies 168-145 B.C, Vol. 2: The Ptolemaic Army Under Ptolemy VI Philometor. Nick Secunda. Montvert publications.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24276749/Seleu...C-volume-2

*G.Mendel "Catalogue des sculptures grecques, romaines et byzantines" tome1.
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#4
Reliefs from Pergamon (tafel XLIII on) compare with Sidon... 2nd cent bc.

http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/...0a55d3bd8c
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#5
It's a rather difficut topic. There is no big evidence for swords, used in the hellenistic kingdoms.

There is some evidence for the use of these "three lobed'' pommels and it also seems that they used longer blades, than on previous Xiphos type Swords :
 http://dlib.nyu.edu/awdl/isaw/isaw-papers/9/

But if you take the reliefs from Pergamon (Pergamon Reliefs) you also see hilts of conventional Xiphos Swords (''Tafel XLIII and Tafel XLVI)''. The one you can see on the plate ("Tafel XLIII") with the ''cataphract like'' arm armor, parts of horse armor and face mask-helmet (???), would support the conclusion that they used longer blades, because it seems, at least for me, longer than earlier Xiphos blades.

There are also Kopis like swords (''Tafel XLV and Tafel XLVII'') which look in proportion, hilt and blade form very much like this Thracian Sword (Sword ''Seuthes III''). And at least there is one Sword I would assume is of a celtic type (''Tafel XLIV'' on the lower relief). On the upper relief on ''Tafel XLIX'' you can again imagine a sword with these ''three lobed'' pommel, but the picture isn't good enough to be 100% sure.

So it seems that the armys of the hellenistic kingdoms used more than one particular type of sword in the late 3rd to 2nd cen BC. Which isn't surprising there would be an greek, persian, egyptian and at least also celtic/galatian influence in weapon design (if you take the whole hellenistic sphere) and don't forget the Romans.
But there aren't enough sources to come to a more elaborate conclusion about this. At least for me.
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