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needlefelt swords and mock-combat
#1
Salve,<br>
<br>
Can someone please tell me what a needlefelt sword is? How is it constructed? Which materials are used? Does anyone has pictures of one?<br>
<br>
I was also wondering if special shields are used for mock-combats.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,<br>
MarcusMummius <p></p><i></i>
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#2
One of the best description of the NFS system came from Caius Man over on the Yahoo Roman Army board, discussing how to build a gladius. I've copied it below. It covers what to get, where to get it, and how to put it together.<br>
<br>
Hopefully, others here can fill in more details, and post photos.<br>
<br>
Chris:<br>
<br>
<br>
Caius Man's post follows:<br>
<br>
Avete Omnes,<br>
Yes, back to NFS. I've made a gladius this last week and put it through some rather punishing testing, and I thought I'd share.<br>
First, construction. I purchased 2" adhesive backed 1/4" thick grade F-3 wool felt from www.mcmaster.com page 3243 of their online catalog. I got a minimum 10' length for 25.50, enough to make a gladius and a spatha. $3 could be saved by forgoing the adhesive, but I found it useful and quick. I bought epoxy bound fiberglass kite spars, .298" OD 32.5" long, type RET40, from www.kitebuilder.com/kitestudio.html for $1.71 each as I bought 10. To build the sword, I cut the felt into two pieces the size and shape of my Pompeii gladius. I then cut two pieces of the tubing to length 6" longer than the felt and bound them together with quality duct tape, 3M Tartan Cloth tape from Home Depot, making sure to continue the wrap about 1" past one end. This end was then wrapped over the top three times and around twice to help insure the fiberglass wouldn't penetrate the tip with thrusting. The adhesive backing was then removed from one of the felt pieces and the rod pair was laid into the center with the tip stopping about 1 1/2" from the tip. The remainder of the tubes protruded from the rear to form a tang for the grip. The second piece of felt was added and the whole thing got a crushing along the edge in my bench vise to ensure proper grip of the adhesive. A standard wooden guard, and pommel were added and a bone grip.<br>
Then I beat the holy hell out of the thing, to the shock and amazement of the other milite who was working in my garage that day. I attacked a 1/4" sheet of plywood as though it were the cause of all misery in the world. Repeated thrusting would not get the tip of the sword to dislodge or even show noticeable damage to the felt, other than a bent tip from the 1 1/2" of unsupported felt. When I tried to test Hibericus' smashed helm theory (which reminds me, if he thinks these things will smash heads, why is he spearheading this ASCA thing?), I found that extraordinary aggression was unable to cave one of the "Trooper" helms I have littering my junk pile. I am not a weak man, I use a hammer for a living. The other milite pointed out that anyone he saw trying that hard to smash a helmet in an actual battle reenactment should be imprisoned. The heinous helmet was fine, buffed even, but the sword suffered. Because of the layered nature of felt, it tended to separate along these strata when swung for an impact and the rods came out one side. Obviously, this would be potentially catastrophic in a reenactment. Thus I attempted to move the construction to the next level.<br>
I then ran a stitching awl all the way around the edge of the damaged weapon, about 1/4" in. I used a standard Leather Factory Sewing awl purchase, some time ago, at Micheal's Crafts near my home. They are also available from McMaster-Carr on page 3249 of their online catalog for $16.84. Black polyester thread was used for the prototype and looks OK, but I'd love to find grey thread. After the reinforcement, the tests were repeated. The weapon again preformed admirably in thrusting, showing no damage and beating the heck out of the plywood without actually damaging it either. The helmet test went well this time too, the sword surviving well even when hit against the protruding ear guards. The super cheap ass brow guard on the Trooper helm took a mild deformation after about 20 repeated blows to the same area. This sort of weapon testing is an excellent workout, ABT. I then tried beating on the brass rim of one of our legion's Scuta and was unable to damage the shield or the felt gladius significantly, although I did discover that it is hard to clamp a shield in place that you are beating profusely, and I banged my shin at one point when the board went flying. C'est la vie.<br>
Overall, I would say that this is an excellent way to simulate gladii for simulated combat, and that this choice of materials works well and is easily obtainable by anyone. I will make another weapon, the aforementioned spatha, and photo record each step as I do it. There will then be a photo essay posted on our legion's website for anyone who wants to make a similar one, though, it's easy. I'd post photos of the one I've got, but it's not looking too good after the initial delamination prior to stitching.<br>
As for pila, I'm going to make a pvc, felt and fiberglass rod one based upon someone's (sorry I forgot who's) suggestion of a piston collapsible pila. This seems very workable and would be fairly safe. I'll test the crap out of it and get back to you all.<br>
Slingstones could be as simple as superballs, but the softer balls found on cheap paddleboards might be more user friendly. I'll also post instructions on making the silicone ones that Marsh suggested once I've fooled around with a common supplier that everyone can get to. I just use Hollywood effects suppliers in my neck of the woods and profession, but I'll see if I can come up with a more accessible and cost effective choice.<br>
For shield edging, this can be made fairly safe by using peened rivets to hold the brass strips on instead of clenched nails. In our experience the primary point of potential injury from shields is badly clenched nails coming out to grab the user's shins. The edges of the brass itself should be reasonably well filed prior to assembly, leaving the only sharp bits being the nail points which face the bearer anyway.<br>
As for shield bashing, get over that notion. Once the two lines have hit and the scrummage begins, your shield is pressed to your shoulder anyway and you are shoving at the other side with your whole body, not punching anyone. Your sword is doing the damage in the gap between you and your brother's shield. A few guys will get hit in the initial impact, but they've got shields too.<br>
<br>
Caius Man, aka<br>
Gaius Manlius Magnus,<br>
Centurio Princeps Cohors I Legio VI Vicrix Pia Fidelis Castra Eboracum<br>
www.legionsix.org <br>
<br>
Copied here by Chris S - LEG XI - Atlanta, GA <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=cstewrt>cstewrt</A> at: 1/20/05 6:36 pm<br></i>
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#3
Thanks for the information!<br>
<br>
Does anyone have pictures?<br>
<br>
And what exactly are 'epoxy bound fiberglass kite spars'?<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#4
Photos of a needlefelt sword are posted at:<br>
yahoo/RomanArmy newsgroup<br>
<br>
In the photos section <p></p><i></i>
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
moderator, Roman Army Talk
link to the rules for posting
[url:2zv11pbx]http://romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=22853[/url]
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#5
>>>"...I found that extraordinary aggression was unable to cave one of the "Trooper" helms..."<br>
<br>
Pity. Use a real gladius next time. Or, I'll do it for you. In fact, I may buy one to 'practice' on. With a viking axe and a claymore. And then I'm gonna do the same with the Centurion version and cut shapes of ducks and rabbits into the crest.<br>
<br>
"Dear Museum Replicas,<br>
This is what I think of your helmets...."<br>
<p></p><i></i>
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#6
Oh, I forgot the Optio version. I think an arc-welder and a propane torch for that beauty. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=tarbicus>Tarbicus</A> at: 1/20/05 9:34 pm<br></i>
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#7
The epoxy bound spars are the tubes used to make kite frames. See www.kitebuilder.com/catal...es/ret.jpg<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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#8
To answer the second part of your question, the whole point of the needlefelt system (which I first introduced back in the junkelmann days so not to hurt the horses in our mounted fights with wooden swords), is that everything else in your kit can be authentic. They will not destroy authentic shields or dent expensive helmets like the heavier practice weapons of wood or blunted steel.. There must be a great deal of material on this subject on past RAT threads you can look up.<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>
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#9
Dan,<br>
<br>
Please contact me off board if possible, [email protected] , regarding event scheduling for next fall and coordinated legion stuff. Sorry so public, I could not locate your email address from our previous discussions. <p></p><i></i>
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