Tips for a Yankee\'s first visit to Europe?

[John W Davison]

Evan,

We did a summer trip down there a few years ago - stayed in Reims and then Troyes for a couple of weeks. Just scanning my brief notes, the highlights were probably the Alesia site (from Troyes), the Vix treasure in Chatillon-sur-Seine (also from Troyes for the day) and the so-called "Camp d'Attila" near Chalons (from Reims). In addition to these, there were various other sites such as museums, castles, cathedrals, ancient sites (Roman walls, Celtic sites etc) and we also went along the Chemin des Dames WWI sites (the Chemin des Dames being the name the road acquired in the 18th C because it was so frequently used by two daughters of Louis XV to visit a good friend), so I can recommend it for "full spectrum dominance" on the historical front!

I don't recall driving past any site claiming to be the precise site of the battle of Chalons, though, so don't go especially for that! If you wander around the Camp d'Attila and exercise a bit of imagination, though, quite an atmospheric effect can be achieved - even though it is an Iron Age hill fort!

Regards, John

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Well no, I would never drive past the Battle of Chalons.

And considering I know where it is I wouldn't drive on it either. Would probably hit an unexploded landmine or something. :dizzy:

Thanks for the tips John.

[Justin I]

Justin.
I'm so sad to hear that you find Hadrian's Wall depressing for I not only live just 15 minutes away from but it in the past I worked with English Heritage as a custodian at both Housesteads and Chesters Roman forts, and I am still out there on the wall most times of the year and still yet find something new each time I go there.
What I think many people fail to consider is to take the whole area of the Roman north of England with not only Hadrian's Wall but the other frontier systems that go with it through the river Tyne gap and just how it may well at periods in Roman history have been one of the most populated areas of Britain.
In fact if one takes a more realistic view of this area they would find that it has been a military and battle zone for a good 2,000 years right on up to almost the 19th century a wild but beautiful country.

I appreciate the historical significance of Hadrian's Wall. I just think of it sort of how I think of those World War I trenches. It's unfortunate to see such a massive societal effort devoted toward war, and part of the reason I love the ancient Romans is because they worked together to build public aqueducts, baths and other things to provide happiness and leisure. Dwight Eisenhower once said: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed."
That said, if I visit the U.K. to visit London and Stonehenge, I might as well visit Hadrian's Wall while I'm there.

[PhilusEstilius]

Justin.
Hadrian's Wall was not built for any thing such as war it is indeed a statement to those beyond the empire who did not wish to accept the Pax Romana that Rome was trying to give to the world, it was more of a barrier to prevent warring tribes such as the Novantae and Selgovae from coming into contact with the northern Briganties and causing trouble in the northern areas of the Roman empire.
The statement was if you don't want to join the Roman empire then live in your own place but should you wish to survive through trade with us then you will be subject to our customs barrier, and this is just what the whole system was but of course it also contained an army that could and would take on anyone who would try to oppose Rome.

[Caratacus]

Another 'add-on' possibility within reasonable travel time of London would be Caerleon, just over the Welsh border. The base for legio II Augusta for over 200 years, the site boasts the only legionary barrack blocks that can be seen in Europe (as opposed to auxiliary barracks, e.g. on Hadrian's Wall), the largest amphitheatre in northern Europe as well as a part of the legionary baths complex. There is also quite a nifty little museum right in the centre of the fortress site. Newport is about 2½ hours from London and a taxi from the station will take about 15 minutes ride.

Actual Roman remains in the UK are pretty sparse. Most places which were colonised by the Romans have become modern towns and cities and the Roman remains are generally deeply buried. As mentioned elsewhere, the British Museum has impressive displays of all sorts of things Roman. And - it's FREE!

One addition that I would would make to visiting Rome would be Ostia. Some amazing remains there. It's almost as though the Romans just upped and walked away from the place.

Mike Thomas
(Caratacus)

[Danielmeijers]

First of all, DONT GO TO PARIS!!!! That city is more dangerous than a Brooklyn neighbourhood with all its pimps and drugdealers meeting on one street.
What the hell are you thinking bro??? Haven't you seen the film Taken? Only if you posses over Liam Neesons particular set of skills can you survive there! (Sarcasm)

Well about the Netherlands, what is it that you would like to see? Most tourists only come to Amsterdam simply for the ability to smoke weed legally in public!
Do you like paintings of Vermeer or Rembrandt than your especially well of in Amsterdam.
For Roman stuff however it is best to visit Nijmegen where there is a Roman museum with the archeological remains they found there.
Are you interested in WWII as well, then you are well off in Nijmegen and nearby Arnhem were the failed operation Market garden played of.
Köln or Cologne whatever you like to call it is about two hours away from Amsterdam, and there is a very worthwhile Romano German museum situated there.
Also advisable would be to visit Xanten which is situated between Köln and Nijmegen which was the place of ancient Ulpia Trajana, there arent much ruines left but the reconstructed city walls and buildings are worthwhile to watch.

[Robert Vermaat]

For Roman stuff however it is best to visit Nijmegen.

If you're from the States you can do all good Dutch museums in one day! Begin in Leiden (RMO), drive by train to Utrecht (DOMunder) en then on to Nijmegen.
The RMO has many great Roman finds, and in Utrecht you can visit the permamnent excavation of the old Roman castellum.

[agrimensor]

Robert, you forgot that in Heerlen is the big Thermen excavation Thermen museum.
not only the limes are Roman .

[Medicus matt]

Another 'add-on' possibility within reasonable travel time of London would be Caerleon, just over the Welsh border.

Or, if things of a martial nature are not to your liking, go to Caerwent instead which is, for me, much more impressive and rewarding.

[Caratacus]

Yes, agreed, but harder to get to. It's about 10 Km away from Caerleon, down the A48. You would have to get the bus to Chepstow and get off half way there are walk the rest.

Caerwent has the remains of the Roman basilica, a Romano-British temple and a row of shops (Pound Lane). The most impressive thing there, however, is the town walls. They are almost a complete circuit and in places stand more than 5 metres in height. There are also some interesting things in the local church, including a dedication slab and an altar to "Mars-Ocelus", a conflated Roman war god. There is also a small museum on-site.

[Alanus]

Well, wherever you go, carry your wallet in a front pocket of your pants. Also, purchase a money belt. It's a hungry ride back to the US after you've lost your credit cards, traveler's checks, and moola. :dizzy:

[Hasdrubal]

Alanus,

Do you have a story to tell?

I'll be going to Rome, Italy next year at the end of September. I'll have questions about Rome, including this one. I heard there were a lot of ummm people that ask for money and pick pockets.

Someone who has traveled and heard a lot about these things in different countries, I've never ran into that problem.

[Alanus]

Hi, Aaron

Nothing really bad happened to me while I visited Rome and bit of Sicily. However, I was almost accosted by a young Gypsy woman who demanded money. A lot of children beg for moola, but she wouldn't quit and followed me for a block or so.

I was almost mugged by two thugs in Guatemala City, one of them ripping the left rear pocket from my trousers. I swung around, dropped my 35mm camera from my shoulder, held the strap in one hand, and took a hard swing. I broke his nose; and his face was messed up and bloody. He and his pal ran off, but I later discovered I broke my camera. My wallet remained in my hotel room, and my money was tucked in my right front pocket.

I keep large-denomination bills in a money belt, I'm seasoned in martial arts, and I've visited over 20 countries. For the sheer amount of beggars, Rome was the worst. :dizzy:

In Italy, I visited Heracleum, Pompeii, Tivoli, and a number of museums. According to ancient sculptors, Amazons had both breasts... which makes statuary Twice as Interesting. Hadrian's "fish pond" was actually a gigantic "live well" used to store fish prior to banquets. The National Museum in Napoli was a TRIP. They had just re-opened the phallus-filled "Porn Room." Romans were Really Big on that stuff. I met the gorgeous assistant curator Maria Lomparti (one of the finest foxes on earth) who unlocked a special room to allow me access to a jar of bronze fish hooks made in the 8th century BC. They were incredibly small, about size #6 by modern angling standards.

I'm a Born-Again Barbarian and Maria was the highlight of my trip. :woot: illy: :whistle:

[Hasdrubal]

Alanus,

Sigh, I heard that about Rome. I guess I'll endure. I seen a couple walking through alleyways with no problems. I'm guessing the majority of beggars will be at the sites. Hopefully they're not too grabby. Anyways thanks for the info.

[sraoses]

neither a week nor a month nor a year would be "enough", someone's purposes might demand a near lifetime spent in any of these places. But you can, indeed, spend five or six days in any of these places and come out a more enriched person.

I would recommend picking a "theme" for your trip, however. For instance, if you go to Italy for five days and try to see everything pertaining to both classical Rome AND the Renaissance, you could be making a massive mistake. But if you focus on ancient Rome, you could see a lot of Rome and also make it out to Pompeii within a week. You'd just have to be pretty diligent and tireless, but some people are like that.

Of course, I don't know how one could go to Rome and avoid the Vatican and St. Peters. You could throw that in, it would take a day to check out the Sistine Chapel. But no Florence, Pisa, Venice, etc. obviously. Pompeii one day, Vatican one day, go around Rome trying to see as much of the ancient city as possible on the other days is what I suppose I would suggest.

If you want to see Paris, I can't quite imagine it would be a good idea to combine it with anything else, even within France, except the nearby Versailles or Vaux le Vicomte. I'm tempted to say Rome is the better option, however (given the time and the whole "theme" thing).