Were the Romans afraid of forests

[7trumpets]

Hallo Guys:

I was recently watching a documentary about the batle of teutoburg in 9 A.D., and in that documentary the narrator spoke about the fear that the Roman legionaries had of the Germanic and other forests! I went to read Tacitus and Suetonius, but I didn't (so far) find any evidence of that fact. I know that some germanic and celtic tribes were animists and they did worship forests and trees and so on, do any of you have some evidence of this fact? Thanks a lot.

[Robert]

Hi Rui,

Welcome to the forum. Please add your real name to your signature.

To attempt to answer your question, the Roman militairy warfarestyle was not really suited for enclosed battlefields like a forest. It was not possible to employ their well tested and shieldwall based formations. So they were much more vulnerable to guerilla style hit and run warware, as well as ambushes. So in a forest, the Romans were at a disadvantage compared to warriors specialised in individual combat.

[PhilusEstilius]

Rui.
I think in the documentry you watched there was maybe a bit of dramatisation going on to portray fear, but I don't realy think the Roman soldier was afraid of any or most things or places.
I do of course agree with Robert where he has explained just how this kind of situation would indeed put the Romans on the wrong footing as far as battle stratergy is concerned.

[Alanus]

Hi, Rui

In general, television historical "documentaries" tend to be simplistic. However, whenever an army fights a war beyond their normal surroundings, they are out of their element. The Romans had trouble fighting in geographical areas beyond the "Frog Pond." They were at a disadvantage along the borders of Persia, for instance; and they suffered a great defeat against the Parthians. These campaigns were close to or on the steppe, not at all like the environs of southern Western Europe. Likewise, in a heavily-forested area like Teutoburg, they fought in unfamiliar territory. However, there is certainly more to the Teutoburg story than geography, including naivety and treachery.

[john m roberts]

To add to the above posts, while the Roman armies relied heavily upon their legions of heavy infantry, they had many other troop types. If forest fighting was in the offing, they would send in light-armed auliliary troops and, even better, local allies who knew the country and were used to fighting in it. Wherever they went, the Romans tried to secure alliances with the locals. Of course, that's exactly what Arminius was - a local ally. They called it wrong that time.

[Vindex]

If it was the recent "Ghost Warriors" documentary, I think the fear of the forest was emphasised rather than the real perils of ambush in enclosed spaces. (And if it was this one you saw, my pony played the part of Varus' horse )

[Michael Kerr]

I recently watched a documentary on the Teutoburg disaster called Perfect Storms the Lost Legions. The narrator suggested the same thing about the natural superstition of the Romans towards deep dark forests but felt that as Moi suggested, the enclosed spaces with the narrow tracks played a big part in the inability of the Romans to form defensive formations. Mike Loades who seemed to be the military advisor for the program as well as Adrian Murdoch suggested that the discarding and burning of the baggage train including their heavy artillery and the fact that at that time there was a fierce storm occurring over Germany with lightning and buckets of rain to bog down the heavier Romans with waterlogged shields and weapons and lastly heavy winds. They even had Mike Loades trying to advance in the face of a wind machine to show how the Romans would be hard pressed to advance into selected positions. I don't know about the heavy winds as I would have thought the deep forest would have dissipated the wind but I come from Australia and have no idea how heavy the winds can be in Germany. But the lightning and heavy rain, the wall erected by the Germans in their selected killing ground and the fact that as news of the battle spread Arminius got many reinforcements who wanted a piece of the action while the tiring Romans over three days received no reserves.

Regards
Michael Kerr

[Walhaz]

All of the above posts are very accurate, and certainly explain far more about the Varian disaster than some sort of preternatural fear of forests. However, I would argue that the Romans were indeed superstitious (or religious, depending on how you look at it), and could and did take enemy gods or bad omens seriously. They were always very conscientious about offerings and divination. Wasn't there a ceremony where the Romans would invite the gods of a besieged city to switch sides?

So while I in no way agree with the notion that Roman soldiers would be afraid of forests, I would argue that these troops, far from home, cold, wet, hungry, and surrounded by howling Germans and dark forest, might well have looked up at the storming sky and wondered if just maybe Mannus or Tiwaz were in fact real, and were pissed. I just don't think it could have helped their morale any, at the very least. So in addition to all of the factors that led to the disaster, morale certainly should be acknowledged to play its part.