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Albion\'s Tiberius + I need help
#1
Before I knew this site, and seen how re-enactors can be very picky on what's acceptable (which I myself am trying to become) I purchased the Tiberius from Albion. I also purchased a hilt from Christian Fletcher. It looks similar to this.

[Image: IMG_2132_zpsa8myt4xt.jpeg]

The numeral X will be taken out and the divus julius or better known as Caesar's Comet replaced with the X. Regardless I'm going to have this done, but I'm wanting to know if it will be okay to have for reenactment purposes?

The time period I'm looking to become a legionary is Julius Caesar's time period. I've done some research and please point me in the right direction because I know I may be wrong on some of it.

Lorica Hamata

Helmet

That's about what I have now. If I could get some other recommendations on getting started. I'm also wondering during Augustus's reign was the Lorica Segmentata in use yet?

As for the budget it's about $2K US. Thanks for all the help and info.
"I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know." ~Cicero

Real Name: Aaron Phelps
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#2
Go with an hamata. You should better replace the standard hooks with a plate.
As for the helmer I think there are better options available for the timeframe. Look for instance at the mannheim coolus ( http://www.fabrica-augustana.de/fabricaa...itary.html )
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#3
Quote:Go with an hamata. You should better replace the standard hooks with a plate.
As for the helmer I think there are better options available for the timeframe. Look for instance at the mannheim coolus ( http://www.fabrica-augustana.de/fabricaa...itary.html )

I'm not seeing how you order from that site. I am going to go with an Hamata, but I would also like a segmentata as well. I believe the time periods are somewhat close and I thought the Legions may have started using the Segmentata in the 9 BC's.
"I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know." ~Cicero

Real Name: Aaron Phelps
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#4
The earliest evidence for segmentata (the Kalkriese type) is indeed from a site with a terminus ante quem of 9BC. However, we still do not fully understand the Kalkriese type and there are several possible interpretations of the evidence assembled so far. Therefore you are in safer ground with hamata or squamata.

For your scabbard, the shape looks fine but I would see if you can install side guttering along the length of both sides, this being a feature which if seen on surviving mid first century BC scabbards. I would also omit the decorative plate at the top altogether as the surviving scabbards do not have plates there, the mouth featuring nothing more than a metal band around it. I don't think there is any evidence for mouth plates on scabbards of the period either.
The surviving examples of mid first century BC scabbards give an impression of simple functionality. Decorative metal elements appear to be something which did not begin to work their way onto scabbards until the advent of an established professional army under Augustus. I would also avoid references to 'Divvs Iulivs' (Divus Julius) as the term was not used until after his death. Perhaps a legion number might be appropriate.

Although you haven't mentioned belts, if I were you I would get a plain belt with just a buckle, as belt plates are very rare finds for the period, suggesting that their use was not widespread. The apron straps seen on later belts also appear to have been an Augustan innovation.

I hope this helps.

Incidentally, this thread should have been posted in the 'Re-enactment and Reconstruction' forum. Can a moderator shift it to the correct location please?

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#5
Quote:I'm not seeing how you order from that site.

See http://www.fabrica-augustana.de/fabricaa...ies_2.html
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
Reply
#6
Quote:The earliest evidence for segmentata (the Kalkriese type) is indeed from a site with a terminus ante quem of 9BC. However, we still do not fully understand the Kalkriese type and there are several possible interpretations of the evidence assembled so far. Therefore you are in safer ground with hamata or squamata.

For your scabbard, the shape looks fine but I would see if you can install side guttering along the length of both sides, this being a feature which if seen on surviving mid first century BC scabbards. I would also omit the decorative plate at the top altogether as the surviving scabbards do not have plates there, the mouth featuring nothing more than a metal band around it. I don't think there is any evidence for mouth plates on scabbards of the period either.
The surviving examples of mid first century BC scabbards give an impression of simple functionality. Decorative metal elements appear to be something which did not begin to work their way onto scabbards until the advent of an established professional army under Augustus. I would also avoid references to 'Divvs Iulivs' (Divus Julius) as the term was not used until after his death. Perhaps a legion number might be appropriate.

Although you haven't mentioned belts, if I were you I would get a plain belt with just a buckle, as belt plates are very rare finds for the period, suggesting that their use was not widespread. The apron straps seen on later belts also appear to have been an Augustan innovation.

I hope this helps.

Incidentally, this thread should have been posted in the 'Re-enactment and Reconstruction' forum. Can a moderator shift it to the correct location please?

Crispvs

You mean 9AD? If you mean the one found at the supposed site of Teutoberg battle...
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#7
No. Definitely 9BC - from Dangstetten.

BTW - you needn't quote my entire post - after all, it's already there for all to see and too much quoting does fill the thread up rather with stuff people have to read through before they get to your own valuable contributions. :wink:


This thread is still in the wrong forum, by the way.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#8
Quote:No. Definitely 9BC - from Dangstetten.

BTW - you needn't quote my entire post - after all, it's already there for all to see and too much quoting does fill the thread up rather with stuff people have to read through before they get to your own valuable contributions. :wink:


This thread is still in the wrong forum, by the way.

Crispvs

I apologize. I didn't know where to post, especially since I'm a beginner. I have more questions but I'll ask them when I get home from work. Thank you for all the help.
"I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know." ~Cicero

Real Name: Aaron Phelps
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#9
Quote:Go with an hamata. You should better replace the standard hooks with a plate.
As for the helmer I think there are better options available for the timeframe. Look for instance at the mannheim coolus ( http://www.fabrica-augustana.de/fabricaa...itary.html )

Question Jv. What period is the „Italic A“ Helmet from?
"I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know." ~Cicero

Real Name: Aaron Phelps
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#10
Quote:Question Jv. What period is the „Italic A“ Helmet from?

It's from pompeii, so it has a terminus ante quem of 79 AD for sure. Don't know the exact find details for better dating though, I imagine it can be a bit earlier.
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
Reply
#11
Quote:
Aaron post=366043 Wrote:Question Jv. What period is the „Italic A“ Helmet from?

It's from pompeii, so it has a terminus ante quem of 79 AD for sure. Don't know the exact find details for better dating though, I imagine it can be a bit earlier.

Well I'm still in the process of figuring out which period vs gear I like best. I do love the Hamata, but I also like the Segmentata as well. I know the Segmentata was used more in the 1st century AD, and not in Caesar's Gallic or Civil War time period.

Also due to me getting the Divus Julius on my scabbard I may go up a bit in time period. I know the auxilleries used the Hamata, but I could have swore so did the legionaries did as well during the 1st century AD.
"I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know." ~Cicero

Real Name: Aaron Phelps
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#12
Quote:Also due to me getting the Divus Julius on my scabbard I may go up a bit in time period. I know the auxilleries used the Hamata, but I could have swore so did the legionaries did as well during the 1st century AD.

With the danger going off-topic a bit, I would not agree with the last bit of your reasoning. Still you're prefectly right, but within it I see a bit of the old 'legionair = segmentata; auxilia = hamata'- reasoning. This is based on Trajans Column and much adopted by re-enactors. However, the archeological record seems to suggest there was no such thing. A segmentata can go very good with auxilia (loads of segmentata finds from auxilia fortresses) and a segmentata can be used by legionairs (as it still is the most wide-spread type of armour for a very long time in history. )
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
Reply
#13
Hamata is a sure bet for both legionaries and auxilia for most of the periods. Segmentata is a bit less universal, but if you like it, buy it and build an appropriate persona around it. Wink
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#14
Quote:Hamata is a sure bet for both legionaries and auxilia for most of the periods. Segmentata is a bit less universal, but if you like it, buy it and build an appropriate persona around it. Wink

I like your way of thinking. :-)
"I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know." ~Cicero

Real Name: Aaron Phelps
Reply
#15
Quote:
Aaron post=366060 Wrote:Also due to me getting the Divus Julius on my scabbard I may go up a bit in time period. I know the auxilleries used the Hamata, but I could have swore so did the legionaries did as well during the 1st century AD.

With the danger going off-topic a bit, I would not agree with the last bit of your reasoning. Still you're prefectly right, but within it I see a bit of the old 'legionair = segmentata; auxilia = hamata'- reasoning. This is based on Trajans Column and much adopted by re-enactors. However, the archeological record seems to suggest there was no such thing. A segmentata can go very good with auxilia (loads of segmentata finds from auxilia fortresses) and a segmentata can be used by legionairs (as it still is the most wide-spread type of armour for a very long time in history. )

I think I'm going to get both the Hamata, and the Segmentata. When did the square scutum come in to play and when did the more oval scutum go out of play? or does it matter?

As for the first reasoning, I've already had Christian Fletcher put the Divus Julius comet on so I think that's a bit to late to reverse. That scabbard cost more than the sword.....
"I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know." ~Cicero

Real Name: Aaron Phelps
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