12-31-2014, 07:06 PM
Luka wrote:
XorX's post is a bit of a generalization of course, true for most ancient swords. Can anyone post the Philon's citation about springy swords? I have no doubt technique for heat treating existed and was used in La Tene and Roman cultures, but since they didn't temper swords (at least everything I read about ancient swords states that they didn't know how to temper) I doubt they tried to harden their swords deep into the steel because without tempering such swords would be hard, but likely to crack which is far worse thing to happen in battle than bending. So it makes much more sense that they tried to harden only edges of the blades or shallow outer layers of the blade. How springy would such a sword be? Also, does anyone knows how work hardened swords made of phosphorus iron behaved when flexed? I know phosphorus iron can work harden quite well, but I don't know about spring qualities of such blades...
Heat treatment methods like tempering must have existed if the level of springiness is true of Celtic swords, as told by Philon.
"[Celtibernians] grasp the hilt [of their swords] in their right hand and the end of the blade in their left; then, laying it horizontally on their heads, they pull down at each end until they touch their shoulders [each end]. Next, they let go sharply, removing both hands. When released, [the sword blade] straightens itself out against and so resumes its original shape, without retaining a suspicion of a bend. Though they repeat this frequently, the sword remains straight."
Philon of Byzantium, βελοποιικά (Belopeika), 4.71
This is sourced from Nic Field's Warlord's of Republican Rome and can also be found in subtle translation differences in several other secondary sources. Unfortunately, I'm still unable to find an online copy of the original text.
XorX's post is a bit of a generalization of course, true for most ancient swords. Can anyone post the Philon's citation about springy swords? I have no doubt technique for heat treating existed and was used in La Tene and Roman cultures, but since they didn't temper swords (at least everything I read about ancient swords states that they didn't know how to temper) I doubt they tried to harden their swords deep into the steel because without tempering such swords would be hard, but likely to crack which is far worse thing to happen in battle than bending. So it makes much more sense that they tried to harden only edges of the blades or shallow outer layers of the blade. How springy would such a sword be? Also, does anyone knows how work hardened swords made of phosphorus iron behaved when flexed? I know phosphorus iron can work harden quite well, but I don't know about spring qualities of such blades...
Heat treatment methods like tempering must have existed if the level of springiness is true of Celtic swords, as told by Philon.
"[Celtibernians] grasp the hilt [of their swords] in their right hand and the end of the blade in their left; then, laying it horizontally on their heads, they pull down at each end until they touch their shoulders [each end]. Next, they let go sharply, removing both hands. When released, [the sword blade] straightens itself out against and so resumes its original shape, without retaining a suspicion of a bend. Though they repeat this frequently, the sword remains straight."
Philon of Byzantium, βελοποιικά (Belopeika), 4.71
This is sourced from Nic Field's Warlord's of Republican Rome and can also be found in subtle translation differences in several other secondary sources. Unfortunately, I'm still unable to find an online copy of the original text.
