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Realistic cold weather gear
#16
Ave Kevin,

You have honed in on a very practical problem. But the invasion of Britain certainly was not the first encounter by Roman Legions with colder climes. Indeed Northern Italy is mountainous and susceptible to extreme cold. I am bemused by those who claim with such certainty that Legionnaires lacked appropriate cold weather gear. I do not know if there are historical records which address this specific issue. I would not look to a sculpture created in Rome. To dismiss, as is more often than not the case, the possibility that Legionnaires had clothing with long sleeves in cold climes is to me befuddling. Frostbite is or can be a major problem. The Roman army had to adapt to multiple climes. And it had to adapt to cold climes. Given its success, I am led to the conclusion that Legionnaires acquired such clothing as necessary to adapt and cope.

Vale,

Petrus Augustinus
(Pierre Kleff)
Petrus Augustinus
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#17
Hello Petrus

Well, I have seen several types of re-enactor tunics and cloaks and yes you are right you could not move if you wore several layers of them. That is however because they are often incorrectly made from the wrong materials or to the wrong design.

Roman garments are much finer often larger and you should be able to wear more than one layer. That is what the sources tell us. If the material is too thick and bulky you also do not get the fine drapery which you can see in the sources you are too quick to dismiss. Cloaks were worn indoors as well as outside and sources mention summer and winter versions. As mentioned previously you could have a cloak with an under-cloak and an over-cloak.

Also I do not understand why you feel Roman depiction's of Roman garments are idealised but Roman depiction's of none Roman garments are authentic. Both should be treated with caution but they are all we have. As I mentioned above some Roman representations of natives show them naked! There is also a lot of sculptural sources from the Provinces not Rome which show winter clothing.

I am not claiming that legionaries lacked suitable appropriate cold weather gear but you are dismissing what the sources say they had. I would rather produce re-constructions which are based on archaeological evidence and supported by sculptural and written sources than resort to speculation which can take you down many roads.

Finally most Roman campaigns, like re-enactment events, sensibly took place in the summer!

I hope this helps.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#18
Ave Graham,

It would appear that we have an honorable disagreement. As an historian, I find that de rigueur. One note, however, as a Texan we would find it quite disagreeable to have reenactments in the summer, when temperatures routinely are between 95 and 100 F during the day. I confess I remain puzzled by legionnaires who had to wear armor in desert climes, especially during summer months.

Vale optime,

Petrus Augustinus
(Pierre Kleff)
Petrus Augustinus
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#19
Ave Graham,

It would appear that we have an honorable disagreement. I am reminded that Napoleon is often portrayed as very short in stature, whereas he was of normal height for a Frenchman of his day. But, ahhh, I digress. That we disagree on a minor point as to authenticity is de rigueur for historians. That we would agree on so much more makes our discourse a pleasure.

I might point out one thing, however. We who live in Texas are not so keen upon reenactments staged in summer where afternoon temperatures normally range from a cool 90 F to a warmer 100+ F. I confess I remain puzzled as to how legionnaires in armor dealt with extreme temperatures in Egypt and the Asian provinces.

Vale optime,

Petrus Augustinus
(Pierre Kleff)
Petrus Augustinus
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#20
Actually Petrus I am not disagreeing with you and neither are you disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with the sources and yes it is true they are often vague, frustrating, contradictory and too often sparse.

Equally I am sure we agree on many things,... although whose to say we are right! :wink:

Best wishes.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#21
These are 2 variations on the same theme, winter wear. One is as an auxiliary infantryman, the other as a Aux cavalryman, both batavians.
I would venture to say my Legionary impression would not differ much, apart from the scutum and pilum, and a gladius instead of the spatha.
Winter in Gaul and Britania are not the same as Italy, and the eastern provinces....and even they can get cold.



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