Imperial Roman military titles?

[dbaezner]

Hi. I'm writing a science fiction story that resurrects the Roman Empire in the future and am considering which military titles to carry forward.

Wikipedia is a bit of a mess on this topic, but here's what I have so far:

propraetor = governors appointed by the emperor (as opposed to proconsuls appointed by the senate)
legate = general
prefect = admiral
centurion = captain
milite = private
milites classiarri = marine

Is prefect correct for admiral? The articles were rather sparse on this one. Also, was there a term for Fleet Admiral, or did they not have one?
Google translate claims that marine translates to nautici, but then translates nautici to sailor. It doesn't recognize classiarri.

Thanks!
Norm

[Sextus Saturninus]

A prefect could command a group of ships in the Roman navy, but he was not an Admiral. A Prefect in the army was a commander in the Legions, under the Legate, but over the Tribunes. They could command a "thousand man" Auxiliary cohort or a Cohortes Evocati, or a whole Legion if they were in the Late Roman army. A Legate would usually command one or more Legions, 5280 strong extremely organized and disciplined men, ready for battle. Centurions commanded a century of eighty men. A century was the backbone of the Legions, six made a cohort, ten cohorts made a Legion. I am not sure about the title of marines, but they were used and carried the normal weapons along with the Falx, for cutting ropes and enemies! Finally, the milite was the normal, trained, commissioned, Roman soldier that was fully equipped.

[dbaezner]

So much for Wikipedia. :woot:

Did the Romans have an equivalent to modern admirals, or was prefect as high as it went?

Thanks
Norm

[Sextus Saturninus]

The prefects were the commanders of the provincial fleets, and one prefect commanded the fleet of one province. They earned various amounts and commanded various numbers of ships, depending on the province that they commanded. The prefects were of Equestrian or Praetorian rank. The ships were organized in squadrons of 10. Squadrons joined together to form larger units. These were commanded by a admiral, a rank equivalent to a Primus Pilus. The men and their commanders were Auxiliaries, but were considered of lower rank and status than the ground troops. Overall, yes, the highest rank in the imperial fleets was the rank of prefect, but depending on the province and fleet, their status was different.

[dbaezner]

That's great! Thank you.

[Renatus]

milite = private
milites classiarri = marine

Google translate claims that marine translates to nautici, but then translates nautici to sailor. It doesn't recognize classiarri.

Milite is the ablative singular, 'by, with or from a soldier', so you don't want that. You want the nominative singular, miles, or plural, milites.

It is not surprising that Google Translate does not recognize classiarri; it does not exist. What Wikipedia may be trying to say is milites classiarii but I am doubtful about that because, as far as I know, classiarius is a noun, not an adjective. Livy refers to classici milites, 'soldiers associated with the fleet', so that might do for 'marines'. The singular would be classicus miles or miles classicus. Apparently, classici on its own can mean 'marines' but, it seems, in the plural only.

Nautici is the masculine plural of the adjective nauticus, -a, -um, 'nautical', but can be a noun (apparently in the plural only) meaning 'sailors, seamen'. The more normal word for 'sailor' is, I think, nauta (plural, nautae).

Generally speaking, I would not rely on Wikipedia. I suggest investing in a decent book on the Roman army.

[dbaezner]

Interesting. Google translates milites classiarii as soliders marines, which doesn't seem to make sense, and classiarii by itself as marines. I may need to learn Latin for this.

[Renatus]

Interesting. Google translates milites classiarii as soliders marines, which doesn't seem to make sense

As I thought, two nouns together.

and classiarii by itself as marines.

That's another possibility. Classiarius is the singular.

I may need to learn Latin for this.

You could do worse!

[Bryan]

So much for Wikipedia. :woot:

Did the Romans have an equivalent to modern admirals, or was prefect as high as it went?

Thanks
Norm

Praefectus (prefect) simply means "leader," it was a catch all title for the commander of any force that didn't have an established name.

Modern military titles are not very exchangeable with ancient Roman military command titles. Check out the etymology of the words:

Captain=capitaneus=chief/headman
Admiral=amir=commander/general/prince

[Nathan Ross]

Modern military titles are not very exchangeable with ancient Roman military command titles.

Absolutely! Centurio, for example, cannot be accurately 'translated' into any modern rank.

I agree with Renatus - trying to cobble together the complexities of Roman army hierarchy from random internet sources is bound to end in a mess! Get a good book instead - there are plenty available, and they're cheap. Goldsworthy's Complete Roman Army would be a good start.

[Frank]

Interesting. Google translates milites classiarii as soliders marines, which doesn't seem to make sense, and classiarii by itself as marines. I may need to learn Latin for this.

I am afraid learning latin will not help. You need to learn more about roman history.

A propraetor was not appointed by the emperor, but by the senate, like a proconsul. Actually they were assigned by lot.
A legatus could be anything: different grades of generals or governors, civil deputies of propraetors or an ambassador
A praefectus could lead a fleet, a legion, a cohort, an ala, a numerus, just govern a tribe or region as civil clerk or be the head of a central department of the empire.

Roman military and civil administration is pretty complex and the careers in an estate-based-society are much different.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Yeah, Rebbeca Muich or whatever her name is did the Roman Empire in Space in her Tour of the Merrimack series. She managed to keep the Roman organization vague enough that she didn't have to really worry much about ranking or titles, so the ones she did use were mostly right AFAIK, but I don't know as much about early principate than Late Rome.

[Sextus Saturninus]

Various militaries over the centuries have all had their different organization system, with different ranks, soldier types, and other things. Rome had a very unique military, and its ranks cannot be interchangeable with modern ranks. Some modern ranks are close or similar, but none are interchangeable with Roman terms, that died out militarily after the last emperor was deposed in 476ad.

Renatus is completely right about Wikipedia, they cannot always be trusted, and often has many faults in its information.

[Youngster]

I think some of this issue is that you need to pin down what your premise is. Because when you say futuristic, I would assume science fiction. If your book is in the future and everything is *space* themed: why assume naval titles? It's sci-fi! It don't gotta be perfect. Just apply the roman land army titles along how they would logically be aplied to a (presumably) spacefaring or at least futuristic military. Maybe more details about your setting would help? I'm sure plenty of folk here have opinions about about how to organize fighter ships into maniples.

[Nathan Ross]

A propraetor was not appointed by the emperor, but by the senate, like a proconsul.

Just to confuse the picture further, most governors of imperial provinces were propraetors, senators appointed directly by the emperor - their full title was legatus Augusti pro praetore. Provinces with more than one legion were governed by men with proconsular authority, again imperial appointments; smaller provinces were governed by procurators from the equestrian order. Egypt, of course, was forbidden to senators and so governed by a high-ranking equestrian praefectus.