Unknown Centurio Graz museum

[Xavi]

I can´t see the images...Can you post the again please?

[Thomas V.]

[hide]http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7206/6965644301_ab123006cc_b.jpg[/hide]

[Xavi]

Is difficult to say If it has some kind of
relieve In the armour

[Xavi]

Certanly looks like a chainmail armour.I will like to see the actual size. If is small, probably the chain armour could not be carved.

[Thomas V.]

I will like to see the actual size.

The height of the whole stele (cf.[hide] http://arachne.uni-koeln.de/arachne/imag...rotation=0[/hide]) is 162 cm, its width is 87 cm.

[Dan Howard]

FYI, Athens had a huge white leather exporting business in classical times. The leather was TAWED with alum and salts, not tanned. The tawed leather was not as sturdy as the tanned leather, but was in demand anyway (white leather spola).

Tawed is not as good. It seems unlikely to make a cuirass of something that is fragile and water sensible...

When tawed leather is made properly it is tougher and more springy than tanned leather, but not as much as rawhide - somewhere between the two. It is a good material from which to make armour. It is just as water-resistant as rawhide and tanned leather. Some cultures made sails from tawed leather (including the Veneti - Caesar, B.G. 3.13). A marine environment is hardly conducive to materials that can't handle moisture.

[Xavi]

This will make the cuirass 25cm too small for engraving on stone.

[Xavi]

But you will agree that is not possible to make a musculata with that kind of leather...

[Dan Howard]

But you will agree that is not possible to make a musculata with that kind of leather...

Musculatas made from any kind of leather are Hollywood costumes. The only way to make musculata that can function as armour is from metal.

[Renatus]

How about cuir bouille, although I believe that this may have been a mediaeval technique?

[Nathan Ross]

At the risk of further groundless speculation (!), there is another possibility of explaining these 'cap sleeves', which I think has been mentioned on here before: might a metal cuirass have been covered with a decorative layer of thin fabric or leather, and this covering extended over the shoulders to form a flexible cap?

We might assume that a shiny metal surface would have been far preferable and more attractive, but the Romans had odd tastes in many things... and the covering might have protected the metal. Why the 'sleeves'? Maybe just to hold the pterugues in place on the upper arms, and stop them splaying upwards with the pressure of the cuirass? :dizzy:

[Xavi]

Also an interesting Idea. The point is that you have to glue the cover to the metal for proper results. It was not so easy to glue a not porous material at that time...

[Dan Howard]

How about cuir bouille, although I believe that this may have been a mediaeval technique?

Cuir bouilli only works as armour if it is layered over mail, which is how it was always worn in medieval Europe. If you think that Roman musculata was made from cuir bouill, we'd need a sculpture where it is depicted being worn over mail.

[Dan Howard]

Also an interesting Idea. The point is that you have to glue the cover to the metal for proper results. It was not so easy to glue a not porous material at that time...

There are plenty of examples where metal armour is covered by textiles. It is done with stitching around the edge or with patterns of riveting. You need to forget about glue. It was never used to make textile armour and was never used to attach metal to cloth or leather. We know how armour was made. It hasn't changed for thousands of years. There is no need to invent a new method of construction when the methods used on extant examples work perfectly well.

[Renatus]

Cuir bouilli only works as armour if it is layered over mail

This article seems to imply the contrary:
http://historical-academy.co.uk/blog/201...r-bouille/