Question about Theodosius Obelisk Base

[Urselius]

See the Magi (Easterners) here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...281%29.jpg

Compare these images with those of the kneeling figures to the left in the column base images. Note that they are wearing close-fitting hose-like leggings. If you look closely the figures on the left in the column image are also wearing tight-fitting leggings. Of the figures to the right, as well as the hairy-coats, some of the figures show evidence of loose fitting trousers with squared off cuffs at the ankle. Two groups, differentiated by dress are being shown.

[ValentinianVictrix]

Martin, have a look a the images on this link and then tell me what you think-

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/17-roman-mi...=45#303367

[Urselius]

There are two figures flanking the trophy of arms that appear to be wearing Phrygian caps, but who are captors and who captives is difficult to work out on that panel. The level of detail is not great, and subject to the interpretation of the artist who drew the representations. All I can say for sure is that on the photographs each kneeling group is internally homogeneous as to details of dress, and that the dress of the two groups differ.

[ValentinianVictrix]

There are two figures flanking the trophy of arms that appear to be wearing Phrygian caps, but who are captors and who captives is difficult to work out on that panel. The level of detail is not great, and subject to the interpretation of the artist who drew the representations. All I can say for sure is that on the photographs each kneeling group is internally homogeneous as to details of dress, and that the dress of the two groups differ.

It's the top drawing of the three that is the one in question I believe.

The interpretation of this side of the Column is as follows-

The top panel shows the Emperors Arcadius and Honorius flanked by their guard, with Victory holding the victory wreath over their heads, signifying their defeat over the Gainas and his Goths below them.
The next panel shows captured Goths giving up their arms, those to the left are armoured whilst those to the right have presumably been stripped of their armour. There are Roman troops behind them overseeing the Goths and to the right are more Romans with a fierce dog supervising the Goths.
The bottom panel shows the captured arms of the Goths being piled up with several of the Goths who are doing this wearing Phrygian caps. As Gainas was at that time employed as a Roman officer he commanded Roman troops as well as his Goths and the Goths under his command would presumably have been armed and armoured as the Roman troops under Gainas' command, hence most of the arms and armour being 'Roman' in appearance.

[Urselius]

I would not build up a universal idea about the dress of the Goths from this drawing. It is impossible to judge to what extent the artist was interpreting the weathered remains. For example the 'captured spoils' on the lower panel include a definite labarum (towards the left hand side), which would be a very odd thing for a Roman army to take from a non-Roman enemy.

If he kneeling group from the photograph are all Goths, then why are the group on the left differentiated by their dress from the group on the right?

[ValentinianVictrix]

This same applies to the pen & ink drawings of the Column of Arcadius. Why are the Goths in the left part of the second panel wearing hauberks but those to the right not? Same query as you have, but both groups are undeniably Goths that are depicted on the pen & ink drawings.

The photograph your referring to has both the left and right side supplicating figures holding identical bowls. They also have what looks like identical beards. The only difference being what they are wearing on their bodies and heads. But that also applies to the pen & ink drawings as I noted above. These may be representations of both Tervingi and Greuthungi Goths for all we know.

I actually saw this monument on my research trip to Istanbul last year and took many photo's of it which I did post a link to in another section. It is very weathered and the other sides have some interesting scenes as well.