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Building a Lorica Hamata;
#1
My question is how many rings would I need to build a coat of Lorica Hamata? I think I could handle the tediousness of construction but I wouldn't want to buy too many rings because the cost does add up.
Dan
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#2
There are no sleeves but the shoulder doublings require additional rings. Depending on the size of the links and the size of the wearer you'd need somewhere between 15,000 and 40,000 to make a decent reconstruction. Keep in mind that you can't buy links produced commercially that look anything like Roman mail. The best you can do is get a superficial resemblance. Making mail from alternating rows of solid and butted links actually produces a result that looks much closer to genuine Roman mail than using commercially available riveted links, which tend to look like soda can ring tabs. If you aren't comfortable making your own riveted links then using butted links might be a cheap compromise.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#3
Best of luck....I hope you are not married....lol
Kevin
Kevin
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#4
I think if you should want a hamat with sleeves you can achieve this very easy and another very good tip when putting the rings together, is not to work it all as one piece but to work out the girth you want then make it in strips three rows wide for this way you put on three rings as opposed to only two as a one piece job.
Then when you have enough strips of three wide you simply clip them together with open rings this way it makes for a faster production.
Brian Stobbs
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#5
That depends Dan. Although most places use flat links I know of ones that use round links that don't look like pop-can tabs.
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#6
Quote:That depends Dan. Although most places use flat links I know of ones that use round links that don't look like pop-can tabs.
I'd love to see photos. I'm not talking about flat links. I'm taking about round-sectioned links with an exaggerated lapped section. If there is something new on the market, I'd be interested.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#7
Quote:There are no sleeves but the shoulder doublings require additional rings. Depending on the size of the links and the size of the wearer you'd need somewhere between 15,000 and 40,000 to make a decent reconstruction. Keep in mind that you can't buy links produced commercially that look anything like Roman mail. The best you can do is get a superficial resemblance. Making mail from alternating rows of solid and butted links actually produces a result that looks much closer to genuine Roman mail than using commercially available riveted links, which tend to look like soda can ring tabs. If you aren't comfortable making your own riveted links then using butted links might be a cheap compromise.

Thank you all for the answers; I know sizes are tough but I am a medium so would that mean about 25,000? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought butted mail was non-solid and just about anything could penetrate it so was unused and Romans used Riveted with solid welded on top before another row of riveted etc?

When did Romans start using sleeves? Of course because sleeves mean buying more links and putting them together I won't be doing that now.

Thank you all for helping me out.
Dan
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#8
The Romans never used butted mail. Their mail consisted of alternating rows of solid links (punched from plate, not welded) and round-sectioned riveted links. But none of the commercial links available on the market look anything like Roman mail. Using alternating rows of solid and butted links gives a much closer approximation of the appearance, if not the protective capacity of Roman mail. If you want riveted mail that looks like the Roman style, you have to make your own links. If you use the right size links then even butted mail gives reasonable protection. I have a shirt made from 4mm butted/solid links and it stops the hardest knife thrust I can deliver.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#9
Your size is pretty much irrelevant to the number of links you'll use, what matters is the size of the links you'll use. If you used 4mm ID links, riveted and punched, 4-in-1 alternating pattern, then it would take you (according to Roman Imperial Armor) approximately 250 Days, and roughly 40,000 links. If you use 6mm ID that's going to cut your link count down to somewhere around 30,000 probably, and if you use 8mm ID maile even less.
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#10
Quote:The Romans never used butted mail. Their mail consisted of alternating rows of solid links (punched from plate, not welded) and round-sectioned riveted links. But none of the commercial links available on the market look anything like Roman mail. Using alternating rows of solid and butted links gives a much closer approximation of the appearance, if not the protective capacity of Roman mail. If you want riveted mail that looks like the Roman style, you have to make your own links. If you use the right size links then even butted mail gives reasonable protection. I have a shirt made from 4mm butted/solid links and it stops the hardest knife thrust I can deliver.

I will never forgive myself if I turn out to have the tools to do it or if the tools are cheap but how would I make riveted links that look Roman?

Quote:Your size is pretty much irrelevant to the number of links you'll use, what matters is the size of the links you'll use. If you used 4mm ID links, riveted and punched, 4-in-1 alternating pattern, then it would take you (according to Roman Imperial Armor) approximately 250 Days, and roughly 40,000 links. If you use 6mm ID that's going to cut your link count down to somewhere around 30,000 probably, and if you use 8mm ID maile even less.

As far as Kult of Athena then (one of the places I'm considering buying from) about how many of the size carried there would I need to purchase?

Thanks again for helping in this.
Dan
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#11
This is the pop-can tab stuff Dan Howard was talking about. It's very wide and flat around the rivet, which it shouldn't be:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?...Mail+Rings

Also, their maile is all WAY too big to be Roman Maile. Germanic Thorsberg Maile, sure.
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#12
I made this hamata several years ago. It has alternating butted steel rings and punched steel rings. It has 35,238 rings, including the shoulder doubling, and took about 55 hours. I spun the butted rings from 16 gauge wire on a 6mm steel dowel, and individually cut each one. I had the 6mm punched rings custom made. It now just sits in the corner, looking cool.


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#13
Quote:I made this hamata several years ago. It has alternating butted steel rings and punched steel rings. It has 35,238 rings, including the shoulder doubling, and took about 55 hours. I spun the butted rings from 16 gauge wire on a 6mm steel dowel, and individually cut each one. I had the 6mm punched rings custom made. It now just sits in the corner, looking cool.
That is what I'm talking about. It looks a hell of a lot closer to Roman mail than any of the riveted stuff you can buy from India.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#14
Quote:
Jeffrey Crean post=357463 Wrote:I made this hamata several years ago. It has alternating butted steel rings and punched steel rings. It has 35,238 rings, including the shoulder doubling, and took about 55 hours. I spun the butted rings from 16 gauge wire on a 6mm steel dowel, and individually cut each one. I had the 6mm punched rings custom made. It now just sits in the corner, looking cool.
That is what I'm talking about. It looks a hell of a lot closer to Roman mail than any of the riveted stuff you can buy from India.

If I wanted to make genuine Roman riveted rings myself in order to construct the real Lorica Hamata where would I start?
Dan
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#15
Just one extra question; during hammering that needs to happen to convert a metal link to the next step before riveting; one thing that occurs to me is using a larger hammer to flatten entire rings in order to do many at the same time; is this historically accurate or is flat ring non-Roman?
Dan
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