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Marcus Mummius · 10-23-2004, 05:45 PM

Greetings, 
 
I've got a problem with my cingulum. If I strap it on over my lorica segmentata it always slides down at the slightest movement I make. Does anyone know how to solve this problem? 
 
Thanks a lot in advance!

10-23-2004, 06:40 PM

You need the Marius clips. Take a piece of brass strip, bend it into a narrow S shape and slip it onto the second from the bottom girdle plate. I use a pair of clips, one on each the left and right sides. Tyeing a short length of lace about the belt in the front to the lowest lacing loop helps as well. I think that there's a picture of the clip at the legio VI site. I also understand that there has been recent archaeological evidence to support the use of belt clips on lorica segmentata.

Marcus Mummius · 10-23-2004, 09:28 PM

Thanks for the advice! 
 
Do I use both the clips and the leather strap? Or do the clips alone suffice?

10-23-2004, 11:00 PM

I use both, a pair of clips on either side of my seg and a lace in front.

10-24-2004, 11:31 AM

Fragments of a segmentata were found with a pair of hooks attached to the girdle plates. After a long and careful study it was determined that the hooks were affixed to the second upper girdle plates (from the top), almost under the armpit. 
After a long discussion on why the heck an armourer would have put there a hook whose sole function seemed to be to rip open the inside of the upper arm, it was finally determined that the whole thing was looked at upside down... 
Ooops... 
Turning the fragment the right way showed that the hook was in fact attached to one of the lower plates, at hip level, and that its function could not be anything else than holding the belt. 
However, these hooks were not present on the almost complete segmentatas found in Britain at Corbridge and Newstead and it could be a later improvement.

Matthew Amt · 10-24-2004, 04:48 PM

Avete! 
 
Yeah, what they said. I lean toward simple "belt loops" of string or leather around one of the lower girdle plates, being less conspicuous than brass hooks. It might also help if the lower edge of your bottom girdle plates are flanged outwards. 
 
Oddly enough, I've never had a problem with my belt staying up! I can only conclude that I'm the only one around here with the proper shape for a Roman legionary! Nyah nyah! (Kidding!) (But my belt DOES stay up!) 
 
Valete, 
 
Matthew/Quintus

Crispvs · 10-25-2004, 01:53 AM

We wear our belts around the bottom girdle pate but my belt has never slipped down and I have never had to resort to the ESG-style belt between the two lowest tie rings. On those occasions when belts slip down, they are normally being worn by new members who are wearing belts which do not fit them, due to not yet owning their own. 
 
Crispvs

John M McDermott · 10-27-2004, 02:56 PM

I have taken to backing my belt with leather. Here are my reasons: 
 
1. Evidence of belts found from the medieval period show they were made of two pieces of leather fastened together, much like a woman's belt today. 
 
2. The leather backing keeps the belt from sliding down a segmentata. 
 
3. The leather prevents rivet shear and loss of plates.

10-27-2004, 09:42 PM

I haven't had much of a "droop" issue with my balteus...Except when I do not fasten it tight enough, then sure enough it will work it's way down, and what's worse, it will silp Under the last girdle plate on the armor and be next to impossible to pull out and pull back up...Also rather embarrassing and time consuming when doing public programs. Stinks even more when you don't realize it's falling down until *shoomp* it's around you're ankles....It doesn't help when you're trying to pull up the belt and the rivets and plates are biting into your fingers either...Ouch. So the back layer of leather is a good idea...I'd like to hear more evidence for it for Roman belts though. 
 
So I've tried to fasten my belt as tight as I can go...That is until I broke the buckle, hinge, rivets and all, this Sunday. I am eternally grateful to Gallio from XXIV from lending me one of his old belts in the meantime...Anyways... 
 
I also have found that if you get the lower edge of the belt to sit ontop of the girdle-fastening-loops, usually at the 2nd or 3rd plates from the bottom one, this seems to help slow down or prevent the belt from falling down. 
(This is for Lor. Seggie by the way) 
 
I've been told that the "belt line" was higher than it is today - about navel-level, so having the belt higher up not only helps keep it up, but helps keep the armor tight to the body as well, getting some of the wieght into the hips, notunlike Maille armor. 
 
I'm still not 100% convinced on the "Marius clips"...But I like the idea of the ties to keep the belt up. I'd suggest a tie between the Pugio frogs and a tie at the buckle; the pugio can "cover" the tie on it's end, and same with the buckle and baldric/scabbard...I can imagine it making an improvement on wearing Maille armor, and easier to adjust too...I may try the tie idea in the future.

Hibernicus · 10-30-2004, 09:01 PM

Marius loops!.. Gaius Marius Trajanus showed up with them at an event 10 year ago. 
 
Also, leather thongs through the front and back lacing loops 
 
Also, two balteuses, one for the gladius and one for the pugio... your CINGULUM rides on them. 
 
Also, a CINGULUM of softer leather or thinner leather cinches nicely and rides well.. often cingulums are made with thick leather. 
 
Hibernicus

11-03-2004, 12:39 AM

Ave, 
 
I constructed my segmentata a little tight fitting (or maybe I've swollen ), and the bottom two which are not contected tend to get flaired out by the hip, which eleminates all possibility of the balteus slipping. The more barrel shaped segs. seem like theyd' be more problematic. 
 
I've heard that these Marius "loops" have been found in the archeological record; Is this true? Are there pictures? 
 
Vale, Florentius 
 
www.florentius.com Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jaredfleury>jaredfleury</A> at: 11/3/04 1:41 am

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