Roman bench vice?

[Robert]

Hi guys,

Having looked in vain all over for data on a Roman bench or post vice to clamp (hot) metal in, I turn to the esteemed members of RAT to see is anyone knows of such a device recovered from the Roman or Merovingian period. We do know the Romans employed screw mechanisms and quite a few objects would suggest the use of a vice in their making, but has one been found ??

[richsc]

Fascinating idea, Rob. But can you post a picture of a bench vise, and particularly the type of functions you expect it to serve? We mght could recognize something that may serve as a bench vise but otherwise be overlooked

[XorX]

there is one example from Lauriacum / Austria. It`s publicated in "Forschungen in Lauriacum Sonderband 1/2" by Hannsjörg Ubl and dates to the 3.-4. century
It looks a bit like a standard forging vise without the screw rod. there is no thread in the holes of the two arms of the vise what suggests a system with a wedge throgh a rod as in the small hand vice from Augusta Raurica.
According to "Die Schraube zwischen Macht und Pracht", a catalogue about the roman use of threads from 1995, the romans were not able to cut "inner threads" into metal. Every metal screw mechanism that has been found has a pin serving as "inner thread". This construction isn`t able to transfer much powers (what is needed when used in a vise)

The clamping parts of the vise from Lauriacum are quite small, so it may not have served in a forge but in a bronze-workshop or so

[Robert]

Oh drat! Noticed I posted in the wrong section. Should be in Reconstructions!

XorX, any chance of some pictures, either here or by regular mail,please? Construction sounds very interesting, so I would really love to see it to figure out how this may have been put to practical use. It would be very helpfull in things like torquing.

[XorX]

: PM sent
and a link to the small vise from Augst: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...=960%2C720

[sendanor]

XorX, thank you for the picture.

From what I see, it is made out of two long rectangular wood pieces, clamped together with a metal axis with a wedge as closing device.....correct? Can this item be clamped on an anvil or another kind of working base?

Has anyone experience in using this item for clamping bone in it to work the bone? Or are other bench vices known which are better suited for this kind of craft? This information would help me much for my future impersonation as a military bone worker in my group.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Xorx: this is very similar to jewelry clamps used today. Thanks!

[XorX]

XorX, thank you for the picture.

From what I see, it is made out of two long rectangular wood pieces, clamped together with a metal axis with a wedge as closing device.....correct? Can this item be clamped on an anvil or another kind of working base?

Has anyone experience in using this item for clamping bone in it to work the bone? Or are other bench vices known which are better suited for this kind of craft? This information would help me much for my future impersonation as a military bone worker in my group.

correct. The wooden parts are interpretation. They may have had another form. Wood is hornbeam. The axis made of bronze and the plate and wedge made of iron were found together.
I know working with these clamps as hand-held but sometimes I do also clamp my modern ones in a bigger vice.

A friend of mine does boneworking for public. the working-place he has built is here: http://www.baiovarii.de/Handwerk.html

Lucius: I know :-) , I have some in my wokshop. there is another variety of these clamps in a 6th.century goldsmith-grave from Austria. It`s like a pair of tweezers with a ring over it to get stuff clamped

[sendanor]

Thank you for the quick response, XorX.

I cannot see clearly which item is the vice on the picture from this website (attachment).

Is it the wood piece on the left?

[Medicus matt]

According to "Die Schraube zwischen Macht und Pracht", a catalogue about the roman use of threads from 1995, the romans were not able to cut "inner threads" into metal. Every metal screw mechanism that has been found has a pin serving as "inner thread".

What about the late period crossbow fibula? Some of them had screwed elements with reciprocating threads (see "A Late Antique Crossbow Fibula in The Metropolitan Museum of Art": Metropolitan Museum Journal, v. 35 (2000))

[richsc]

Two threaded examples come to mind, though of course I've not examined them. Both were found in Pompeii / Herculaneum. One is the brass speculum, the other a little collapsable table where the top and bottom halves screw together: I've had several modern versions of these as cheap floor lamps over time.

Do these have internal threads? The table would have to screw in somehow.

[brennivs - tony drake]

Richard the speculum has a pin for the internal thread. Not sure about table but I think I know the table you are talking about.
Regards Brennivs :lol:

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

There are some wine/oil presses that have a screw for making pressure.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Or this one for wool (felt?) press in Ercolano

There are made in wood. But probably you could make in iron the parts who trap the iron to be worked, and the mechanism in wood...