I guess we should not call the immunes a kind of NCO. The principales were a kind of NCO, because they had military duties. Every principalis was an immunis. But the majority of the immunes were no pricipales ad therefore privates. Just a miles with a special profession needed for daily and often non-militarian operations (butcher, shoemaker, ....). And looking to the dozens of terms, we don't know, what was just a temporary role (e.g. gatekeeper) and what was a permanent job or immunis (e.g. caligarius).
Beeing an immunis is a privilege and makes life much easier, but thats about it. Well, there are some high professionals like medici or architects and such, but thats a special case and a minority.
So I see no need to have special badges for an immunis (not principalis). Even if they perhaps had put special insignia to their girdles. But we don't know of any system or rule about it.
The officers like legates, tribunes, praefects and centurions were easy to identify (tunica and other emblems). So the more interesting question is, how to identify a principalis. Was an optio moving in the camp all day long with this special stick with a ball at the end? I doubt he did. Was there any other way to identify a principalis? We know, that in the 3rd century, principales were allowed to wear a special ring like the centurions. But this still does not distinguish between an optio, signifer or beneficarius. And surely not between a beneficarius tribunis, beneficarius legatis and beneficarius consularis. It becomes even more fuzzy, if we look to librarii. An ordinary librarius was a simplaris and most probably no principalis. But a librarius consularis could be a duplicarius and was probably even a senior principalis.
Quote:I view the military belt as similar to the medal ribbons on a modern soldier’s parade uniform
Very likely, I would say. The belt was such a prestigious marker of a soldier's status, arguably his only 'uniform', that the decorations on the belt could well have been highly significant, and other soldiers may have been able to 'read' various expressions of rank and distinction from them.
Quote:The third century Historia Augusta for example mentions that Aurelian added stripes to soldiers tunics if they had awards or gave more stripes to those who already had some, up to five stripes. Presumably this is the sort of thing we can see on the tunics of the Piazza Armerina mosaics.
This is an interesting point - I'd never noticed that particular bit before. The full quote is:
[Aurelian]... was the first to give tunics having bands of embroidery to his troops, whereas previously they had received only straight-woven tunics of purple, and to some he presented tunics with one band, to others those having two bands or three bands and even up to five bands, like the tunics to‑day made of linen.
paragaudas vestes ipse primus militibus dedit, cum ante non nisi rectas purpureas accepissent, et quidem aliis monolores, aliis dilores, trilores aliis et usque ad pentelores, quales hodie lineae sunt.
(HA, Aurelian 46.6)
The word for tunic is 'paragauda' - so perhaps not the standard military tunica then? The same word appears in HA Claudius for an embroidered tunic sent among other gifts from Gallienus to Claudius Gothicus.
The important thing seems to be that this was clothing given as a gift, and not intended for everyday wear. It might also be an anachronism from the HA writer's own day, of course, and refer to court dress. But that doesn't mean that Aurelian didn't give his men striped or embroidered clothing. Probably not as a badge of rank though, but more as a special reward, like armillae or torques maybe.
It is a pity that the only late tunics that have ever been found all seem to have just two bands on the cuff. Howver most do not appear to have been military tunics anyway. However I am wondering if 'bands' in this case also includes those on the shoulder which we can see in the Piazza Armerina mosaic. (see below)
Based on what has been discussed, if an army cook is in his kitchen wearing a chefs hat and preparing food presumably everyone knows who he is. Why then does he have to have a chefs hat badge on his tunic as in the attached example? Presumably for when he is not in the cook house and to show off his achievement of reaching this status.
Just for fun, attached is also a detail from a painting of mine of a Roman Dromedarius, slightly converted. It would be nice to find evidence for something like this!!!
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Quote:I am wondering if 'bands' in this case also includes those on the shoulder which we can see in the Piazza Armerina mosaic
Yes, it's a tempting idea. It seems that these HA quotes are referring to some highly decorated tunics, and from certain references in later law codes it seems there were sumptuary regulations in the later empire about the decoration of clothes. If a soldier was given special permission to dress in an ostentatious way, it would be a demonstration of reward, rather like wearing a medal or a crown. Specific rank status based on this might be harder to establish, though...
Quote:a painting of mine of a Roman Dromedarius, slightly converted.
Looks excellent! I do think, that for the true 7th Cavalry look the camel should also be wearing a yellow neckerchief. illy:
Vindex post=356520 Wrote:I view the military belt as similar to the medal ribbons on a modern soldier’s parade uniform
Very likely, I would say. The belt was such a prestigious marker of a soldier's status, arguably his only 'uniform', that the decorations on the belt could well have been highly significant, and other soldiers may have been able to 'read' various expressions of rank and distinction from them.
Why, thank you Nathan. I'm please someone read my post and, more importantly, agrees mile:
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Moi,
You do have a very good point about belt plate types/decorations........you know this is coming......but, do we assume that anyone circa 1st cent AD with a "decoration" other than just concentric circles on their belt plates were of higher status?
This is putting it very basic.....elaboration of the plates could be due to amount of money to spend or even location of the soldier. Do we then start to equate to the elaborate decoration on the Pugio? Helmet type? etc etc.
All I am trying to put over is that we need to find the "hub" of this spiders web, not start working outwards where everything starts to diversify. Now consider this.....could it be the width and size of the plates that made a difference? 25mm belt plates as opposed to 50mm belts?. A bigger thicker belt is more noticeable than the designs on them.
Vexilations from Legions served here there and everywhere and at all times with other units.
If rank was visible to Roman Soldiers, then it was very visible.
Kevin
Kevin - I take your point; but to elaborate on another Watson theory, if the money acquired by a century from booty was shared out according to rank/seniority, some would get more than others, don't you think? The Centurion would, quite possibly, get more than a grunt; his optio perhaps a little more. If you had more money, you could have better, bigger plates, cingulum , pugio etc etc etc.
Possibly...
Possibly not.
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
The difficulty in the case of the belt is that, in the relief of the Camomile Street sodier and in other (though not all) depictions of soldiers in 'undress' uniform, the tunic is bloused over, so that the belt is concealed.
Michael King Macdona
And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Well, that is the usual scenario when you study the Roman Army. Just when you think you have got something, something or someone comes along that blows it all up in your face! :dizzy: ad:
Graham
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
I too served in the military and whilst uniforms are the most obvious way to determine who is of what rank, serving in a unit for a length of time would determine knowing who held a rank above you purely by you knowing them by who they were. I think in the Roman army the same would be true, you become familiar with those who are commanding you by their face alone.
illy:
