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In Book 16, section 11, Ammianus Marcellinus reports that Barbatio, magister peditum, blamed two tribunes, Bainobaudes and the future emperor Valentinian, for failing to block the escape of Laeti who had looted Lugdunum. He was covering for his deputy Cella who later confesses it was a bad move.
AM says the two tribunes were cashiered and 'returned home as civilians.'
Only a few paragraphs later, Tribune Bainobaudes pops up leading light-armed auxiliaries to wade through lowlying Rhine water over to the Alemanni-held islands and recapture the booty.
HUH? How does Tribune Bainbaudes get himself out from under disgrace as the scapegoat for Barbatio and reduction to civilian status to appear, few paragraphs later, fully restored to full command under Julian?
Any ideas or explanations?
Thanks again
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I would suggest that they are two different officers with the same name. At Amm. 14.11.14, Ammianus refers to a Bainobaudes who was tribunus scutariorum. These scutarii were probably cavalry (we have discussed the nature of these units before). The tribune Bainobaudes referred to in Amm. 16.11.7 as being cashiered for letting the Laeti get away commanded cavalry troops (Amm. 16.11.6). On the other hand, the Bainobaudes referred to in Amm. 16.11.9 as involved in the crossing of the Rhine and who was killed at the battle of Strasbourg (Amm. 16.12.63) was tribune of the Cornuti and thus an infantry officer.
Michael King Macdona
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Researching further, I see in a Wiki note that assumes it's one guy, not two Bainobaudes, that his promotion from Tribune of the Scutarii and restoration to service as Tribune of the Cornuti is recorded in a book about the Emperor Valentinian by one Prof. Tomlin of Oxford, 1973 I can't source a copy, does anybody have that around?
It's unusual, if you're right, for AM not to distinguish between the two men, e.g. when he has two men named Florentius in the frame, he makes it clear that one is Florentius, the praetorian prefect (Bk 16) and the other is Florentius, son of Nigrinianus (Bk 15.)
You may be right.
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The book is Roger Tomlin's doctoral thesis. It is not available via the British Library EthOS website, so unless you have access to the Bodleian Library in Oxford you will probably have difficulty in getting a sight of it.
Ammianus does differentiate to some extent. Admittedly, in the passage relating to the incident with the Laeti he only refers to Bainobaudes as tribunus but in Amm. 14.11.14 he says that he is tribunus scutariorum, while in the passages relating to the crossing of the Rhine and the battle of Strasbourg he quite specifically calls him tribunus Cornutorum.
Michael King Macdona
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Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
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"
The book is Roger Tomlin's doctoral thesis. It is not available via the British Library EthOS website, so unless you have access to the Bodleian Library in Oxford you will probably have difficulty in getting a sight of it..."
So I guess you're saying Tomlin got it wrong, so I'll go with two guys. Wish I could see that Tomlin argument.
Thanks again,
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I hesitate to challenge a scholar such as Roger Tomlin but, as you suggested in the OP, it seems strange, if there were only one Baidobaudes, that he should be reinstated so quickly, especially when it appears that Valentinian was not reinstated at the same time. It used to be possible for a local library to borrow theses from the British Library on microfilm for consultation within the library. I have asked my local library to try to get this one. If they are successful, I will study the relevant part and let you know Tomlin's reasoning.
Michael King Macdona
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That would be enormously kind of you. I'm in central Europe, far from these resources, working almost entirely online or with used books purchased when I can afford them.
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Wickedly odd, indeed, that two different Baidobaudes were stationed at the Alemanni frontier at EXACTLY the same time and with the SAME rank. Kind of like deja vou all over again. :whistle:
Not every interpretation in a doctorial thesis need be correct; and this particular one is open to question.
As for the other scenario, here is a passage from Ammianus' long-lost Secret History of the Alemanni Wars:
Legate: "Bring in Rumplestiltskin. I want to question him."
Legate's aide: "Which Rumplestiltskin?"
Legate: "Good grief, Man! How many Rumplestiltskins can we possibly have in this legion?"
Legate's aide: "Well, sir, according to the Acta Militaria we have approximately 347."
Enough said. ;-)
Alan J. Campbell
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Although off topic re Ammianus, but weren't there supposed to be two Flavius Aetius characters around the same time in the various wars against Attila. The famous Magister Militum of the Western Empire, Flavius Aetius and the Eastern Empire Comes Domesticorum Flavius Aetius, at least there were two according to Hydatius who suggested that Marcian made eastern forces directly available to the west in the defence of Italy, under the eastern general Flavius Aetius. Were there really two around the same time or was there a muddling of the western Aetius' campaign and Marcian's sending of troops into Hunnic territory in support of the west. Hydatius does mention that an Aetius received the consulship in 454AD but was this just an error and were the two men possibly the same? :???:
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Michael Kerr
Michael Kerr
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Quote:Although off topic re Ammianus, but weren't there supposed to be two Flavius Aetius characters around the same time in the various wars against Attila. The famous Magister Militum of the Western Empire, Flavius Aetius and the Eastern Empire Comes Domesticorum Flavius Aetius, at least there were two according to Hydatius who suggested that Marcian made eastern forces directly available to the west in the defence of Italy, under the eastern general Flavius Aetius. Were there really two around the same time or was there a muddling of the western Aetius' campaign and Marcian's sending of troops into Hunnic territory in support of the west. Hydatius does mention that an Aetius received the consulship in 454AD but was this just an error and were the two men possibly the same? :???:
You're right about Aetius, but at least they were in different parts of the empire.
A possible explanation of the Banobaudes conundrum may be that either Ammianus or a later copyist made an error. The events may possibly have switched places, leading to this confusion. It's possible that Ammianus used a source which mentioned this Baobaudes, but got the continuity wrong. It's not altogether unheard of for ancient authors to wander off during writing, mentioning events totally unconnected to the topic at hand. Ammianus may even have recalled the second incident earlier, writing of that first.
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Quote:Ammianus may even have recalled the second incident earlier, writing of that first.
If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that the crossing of the Rhine came first, then the Laeti incident, followed by Bainobaudes being cashiered. If so, he still has to be reinstated in time to be killed at Strasbourg.
Michael King Macdona
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Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
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It's not an elegant solution. :whistle:
It may be due to the time involed in these incidents. Bainobaudes fails with the escaping Laeti and is sent home for that. But the next paragraph, which describes bainobaudes' action against the islands, opens with the words'"at the same time".
No doubt the investigation which found bainobaudes having failed took some time, and the part in which he was sent home may have taken place after the raid on the island.
Which may 9speculating) also explain why he was present at Argentorate - he may have been pardoned due to his success later?.
Another alternative (besides indeed two people with the same name and function) would be a mistake for the name.
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The interesting point here is that Ammianus was in Gaul at this time, and he may actually have been present at Argentoratum. I think he would be recalling from memory and must surely have known if there were two people of the same name.
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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Quote: . . . and must surely have known if there were two people of the same name.
Which is why he describes them differently.
Michael King Macdona
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Quote:Ammianus was in Gaul at this time, and he may actually have been present at Argentoratum.
Surely not - he says he went to Sirmium with Ursicinus in the spring of 357, and then followed him to the east. So he missed the battle by six months or so - but he would have been acquainted with many of the officers of the Gallic army nevertheless.
Without further confirmation, it would be better to assume there was more than one Bainobaudes, I think. It may have been a fairly common name, after all, like Marcellus or Severus among the Romans!
Nathan Ross
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