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Horn Artefacts
#1
Regarding horned helmets

There are a few late Roman findings of pairs of boar tusks joined by a metal fitting. Werner attributes the example from Monceau-le-Neuf grave 2 to a leather helmet and compares it to the boar figurines attatched to later helmets.
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#2
I would be interested in the source for that.
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#3
Quote:I would be interested in the source for that.

My source was Böhme's Germanische Grabfunde des 4.-5. Jahrhundert zwischen unterer Elbe und Loire. This is the article Böhme refers to: [hide]http://opac.regesta-imperii.de/lang_de/anzeige.php?aufsatz=Eberzier+von+Monceau-le-Neuf+%28D%C3%A9p.+Aisne%29.+Ein+Beitrag+zur+Entstehung+der+v%C3%B6lkerwanderungszeitlichen+Eberhelme&pk=772703[/hide].
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#4
I can't access the article, do you have images? Would love to see some.

Not criticizing you, just fascinated.
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#5
Quote:I can't access the article, do you have images? Would love to see some.
It isn't an online version of the article. I might have a picture tomorrow.


EDIT


Quote:I might have a picture tomorrow.
A sketch of said grave: [hide]http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-769-1/dissemination/pdf/vol05/5_001_070.pdf[/hide] (fig. 11, p. 31).
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#6
hello,
its an brass helmet with natural patina.
Teodor Popa
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#7
Hey, thanks for the continued support, Ben! :woot:

I've really done more Carthaginians than Romans in my last few images, but I'm starting on the rest of the images in earnest now that the layout questions are solved - so, expect new Cannae stuff from me soon.
Jenny Dolfen

My illustrated novel project: [URL="http://darknessovercannae.com/"]Darkness over Cannae[/URL]
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#8
Quote:Hi Andreas,

Decebalus post=352643 Wrote:Late Roman Tribune
See the discussion here

Great drawing. But as I've argued in the discussion, this man looks like a common late Roman federate soldier and not like a late Roman tribune. While under some very exceptional circumsatnces a tribune might do away with all his armour or other badges of honour that would make him recognisable as an officer, the common late Roman tribune would not look like this.

To come back to the discussion about the "authenticity" of the Bainobaudes painting/figure, I will try in my best English which should be far better to fully explain what I mean...

What were the "badges of honour" of a late Roman tribune of a Germanic unit?
The muscle-armour with sash is depicted on the arc of Constantine for himself and an officer leaning on his shield not involved in the fighting.
If an officer leading a charge of unarmoured men would possibly do without heavy armour too or not, will remain open to debate I fear.
The rank markers which made him still visible as an officer were the wearing of a torques of gold, the amount of precious metals on his equipment, the gold platet shield boss (all adoptet from the Germanic warrior society as confirmed by graves and bog finds). Perhaps the form and quality of his tunic decoration would also have shown his rank.
The "horned" helmets can't have been an artistic convention, because there simply is no convention at all for this special kind of decoration.
As it would have a somewhat exotic touch to the audience I think it shows something which really excisted.
So it can be feathers or horns - for me it looks more like horns. That they are fixed to the front of the helmets and not the sides would speak for goat's horns.
The self-identification of Germanic warrior groups with certain animals has been convincingly treated by M.P. Speidel in his "Ancient Germanic Warriors".
Apart from the Iulii monument and two or three rather questionable depictions of horns on Roman helmets (gravestone of C. Castritius Victor, "Centurio" on the Portonaccio sarcophagus, Sora frieze) there are no signs that horned helmets have been a Roman tradition. Apart from the Italic helmets of the 4th C. BC, horned helmets seem to be influenced either by Celtic or Germanic warrior societies and this makes it probable to identify the warriors on the arc of Constantine with the Cornuti.
It might be of interest that some possible helmet attachments made of bronze sheet in the form of horns have been found in Vindonissa (1st C).

[attachment=9332]Helmaufstze_Vindonissa.jpg[/attachment]

And a reconstruction how they might have looked attached to a helmet:

[attachment=9333]T19-Equites-singulares_fertig2.jpg[/attachment]


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Andreas Gagelmann
Berlin, Germany
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#9
Quote:Regarding horned helmets

There are a few late Roman findings of pairs of boar tusks joined by a metal fitting. Werner attributes the example from Monceau-le-Neuf grave 2 to a leather helmet and compares it to the boar figurines attatched to later helmets.

Hello,

Here an example of the boar horns repartition (F.Vallet, 2008, "Coll.mérovingiennes de Napoléon III provenant de la région de Compiègne", whe is retired since 2years, and was the French Archeological Museum's 1st conservative since years).


[attachment=9343]Dentsdesanglierdansdesmontures.jpg[/attachment]


According to E.Salin and Böhme, this could be a help-fited deocration.
But according to the latest sutides, this are more a feminine (90% acc.to F.Vallet) phylactery, as for as some were found with pendants-amulets, some others with some big rings attached to the "two bronze rivets" that were undestrand by older authors as rivets to the helms.


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Database about the late roman and merovingien gauls: http://241-752.forumgratuit.fr/

Website of our cultural/reenactment team about merovingians times: http://www.musee-itinerant.org/index.php?width=1280
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#10
Quote:a reconstruction how they might have looked attached to a helmet

Very interesting! Perhaps this is the source of the idea that the cornicularius was identified by a horn on his helmet? I've always found that a strange notion, but perhaps there's something in it after all...
Nathan Ross
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#11
So they were mostly feminine in nature?
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#12
Boar tusks assembled this way are also depicted on late roman art as part of horse gear.


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"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons."
Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
[Image: 955d308995.jpg]
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
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#13
Quote:part of horse gear.

Yes, there's a similar suggestion in the ADS article that Thomas V linked above (p.30).

Might this discussion about horned helmets be split from the thread though? Perhaps starting with Thomas's post here?
Nathan Ross
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#14
Quote:
Agraes post=352859 Wrote:part of horse gear.

Yes, there's a similar suggestion in the ADS article that Thomas V linked above (p.30).

Might this discussion about horned helmets be split from the thread though? Perhaps starting with Thomas's post here?

Sure thing.
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