Sale of Antiquities in Great Britain

[Macedon]

Is it true that there are shops in England which actually sell authentic ancient artefacts like rings, brooches, pottery etc???? Artefacts genuinely collected in digsites???? How are they assessed?

[Lyceum]

Such things can be found widely, all over Europe, especially in the Mediterranean so yes. Sometimes not even shops. There's an occasional trader that comes to Gloucester Green in Oxford that trades in antiques and has really old pieces, I've seen mature Indus Valley Pottery (2200-1900 BC), some Meso-American jewellery and sub Roman British pieces. This literally less than 5 minutes away from the Archaeology building and the Classics Faculty and library.

In actual dedicated auctioneers and stores I'm sure you'll find much more for even more money. Huge amounts of antiquities are moved in the US by private hands. I'm not sure how much is new but there are always sales coming out of Greece and the black sea areas.

As for assessment, well, as I said most being sold come from private collections so they've often passed under the gaze of experts. Other items tend to be direct from the site. Its easy to get "unchecked" coins museums don't have time for via eBay. People don't have time/money/space to check and keep them so they sell them.

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

There are many authentic artifacts and coins that come from perfectly legal sources. There are even numismatic code of ethics that govern the sale and trade of objects. I have many coins and other antiquities in my collection that are all from legal sources. Prices can range from a few dollars to hundreds of thousands...it depends what you want. Feel free to PM me for info.

[Vindex]

Antiquities are very popular in the "market" these days. There is to be a new shop in London soon and their prize exhibit (but for sale) is a 6th C Corinthian helmet. There was an article about it in the Financial Times but I failed to keep the reference. The shop opposite to this will sell Egyptian antiquities which are all provenanced and from private collections.

Roman coins are sold in shops across UK and other artifacts too. From a very early time, Vindolanda sold pottery sherds which have been assessed but which add nothing to the archaeological record. I'm not sure if they still do it, but I bought a piece of Samian (tiny!) and BB2 in the 1970s.

[pmel018]

There are seveal shops dealing in antiquities within a stones throwof the British Museum. They all claim to deal in only legitimately obtained items but I have never felt happy about making a purchase. All those years of studying archaeology I guess.

[Macedon]

Wow... interesting and partly shocking! I had never really given it much thought about it until a friend of mine asked me whether all those thingies sold in such shops are genuine or "genuine replicas".... In Greece it is almost unthinkable for such dealers to exist and so we are naturally extremely wary and biased against such endeavors.

[Vindex]

One can only hope antiquities goes the way of ivory sales!

Although items have "provenance" you really do have to ask how a 6th C Corinthian helmet came to the UK in the first place. I assume "provenance" in this context means an accredited collection in recent years; but who's definition of provenance is it?

[PhilusEstilius]

I have to say as a metal detectorist that yes there are some situations that are shocking such as those who invade scheduled monuments, however the subject of most artifacts now with genuine detectorists is that we do now have a system called PAS.

This is where much more material that would otherwise be destroyed by farm sprays and other such damage by farming methods, can now be recorded for posterity and with many more ordinary people taking a great interest in history there is nothing so wrong about anyone having small items of general interest.

There are other situations of course where archaeologists have indeed rolled over backwards not to cause waves for those who would go off on a commercial venture like a tremendous cavalry sports helmet of more recent times.

[Conal]

Although items have "provenance" you really do have to ask how a 6th C Corinthian helmet came to the UK in the first place.

Joseph of Aramethea brought it with him to Glastonbury along with a certain goblet :whistle:

[Urselius]

There were many collectors in Britain during the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries - they were wealthy and took many things from countries under British rule or countries that were merely relatively poor and did not have a developed sense of the worth of their remote national history or its physical remains.

These old collections have provided most of the antiquities in circulation, they are of course added to by more recent and more objectionally sourced material and by fakes.

[M.VAL.BRUTUS]

I really fail to see the problem with a private citizen owning antiquities...

I mean obivously, no one want to see a site pillaged and objects taken and sold without them being catalouged and studied. I think the blakc market for antiquities needs to be dealt with, but I think the easiest way to shut it down would be for museums to start clearing out their basements of all the items they never intend to use for dispaly or exhibit. Most museums have tens of thousands of antifacts that haven't seen the light of day in decades, and many private collectors lend their items to museums with mower budgets so that the items can be seen by people, who could not therwise afford to travel and see them in person.

The best wat to sht down the black market and stop looting is to flood the market with known and provenonced items that are of little value to the museums they are being stored at...