03-23-2014, 04:24 PM
Adrian wrote:
I think your unfamiliarity with the Late Roman army shows at this point.
No, it’s looking through the eyes of a loving and innocent mind. illy:
Adrian wrote:
There are numerous examples in Ammianus where he describes legionarii and auxilia are sent on special missions and when they do so they are called 'expediti', which Rolfe translates as 'light-armed'.
Then the legions had their own light armed legionaries, just like the antesignani or velites or hastati.
Adrian wrote:
Its clear in one instance that it meant troops taking off their armour and just relying on their shields to defend themselves.
Why would they take off their armour to defend themselves? Isn’t the point of armour to is to protect?
Adrian wrote:
Ammianus does mention light troops separate from the legiones and auxilia, and calls them velites, Julian and Libanius called them Psiloi.
This still doesn’t rule out that a proportion of the legionaries are missile infantry. The Late Roman army is still fighting with missiles and swords. It’s not like the Thompson machine gun was introduced. So why would they just drop 1000 years of fighting doctrine with a legion consisting of light armed infantry and heavy armed infantry? It doesn’t make sense.
Arian wrote:
The Late Roman unit names are a trap for the unwary.
They are traps for the unwary in any period, and not just for the Late Roman army. Livy calls the additional triarii levied as accensi, which means servant.
Adrian wrote:
Not sure about that as Stephen equates the Scutarii with being called 'targeteers', which implies he has read the Rolfe translation of Ammianus as Rolfe consistently calls the Scutarii 'targeteers' (?).
That’s the one I am using and trying to learn from. It states that the targeteers are scutarii. Hmm, is there anyone I can trust?
Adrian wrote:
The Lanciarii and Mattiarii are not two different unit types, just different unit titles.
Thank you Adrian, now that makes sense. The units are given names. This could indicate the order in which the units are deployed (thinking out aloud here).
I think your unfamiliarity with the Late Roman army shows at this point.
No, it’s looking through the eyes of a loving and innocent mind. illy:
Adrian wrote:
There are numerous examples in Ammianus where he describes legionarii and auxilia are sent on special missions and when they do so they are called 'expediti', which Rolfe translates as 'light-armed'.
Then the legions had their own light armed legionaries, just like the antesignani or velites or hastati.
Adrian wrote:
Its clear in one instance that it meant troops taking off their armour and just relying on their shields to defend themselves.
Why would they take off their armour to defend themselves? Isn’t the point of armour to is to protect?
Adrian wrote:
Ammianus does mention light troops separate from the legiones and auxilia, and calls them velites, Julian and Libanius called them Psiloi.
This still doesn’t rule out that a proportion of the legionaries are missile infantry. The Late Roman army is still fighting with missiles and swords. It’s not like the Thompson machine gun was introduced. So why would they just drop 1000 years of fighting doctrine with a legion consisting of light armed infantry and heavy armed infantry? It doesn’t make sense.
Arian wrote:
The Late Roman unit names are a trap for the unwary.
They are traps for the unwary in any period, and not just for the Late Roman army. Livy calls the additional triarii levied as accensi, which means servant.
Adrian wrote:
Not sure about that as Stephen equates the Scutarii with being called 'targeteers', which implies he has read the Rolfe translation of Ammianus as Rolfe consistently calls the Scutarii 'targeteers' (?).
That’s the one I am using and trying to learn from. It states that the targeteers are scutarii. Hmm, is there anyone I can trust?
Adrian wrote:
The Lanciarii and Mattiarii are not two different unit types, just different unit titles.
Thank you Adrian, now that makes sense. The units are given names. This could indicate the order in which the units are deployed (thinking out aloud here).