02-27-2014, 02:40 AM
Magister Militum Flavius Aetius wrote:
Firstly in regard to the name there are the ancient Sogdian letters from early 4th century where the writer, a Sogdian merchant actually called the Southern Xiongnu who sacked the old Chinese capital Louyang in 311AD Huns.
Secondly the placement of European Hunnic cauldrons on the banks of rivers matches the placement of Xiongnu cauldrons near rivers in the Ordos region of Inner Mongolia.
Thirdly the European Huns & the Xiongnu practised a very similar sword cult.
Fourthly the Huns seem to have the same or a very similar military and aristocratic organization to the Xiongnu. Organized into 24 tribes or groups with the top echelon '4 horns' for sons & younger brothers ‘6 horns' Alti (six) Cur (nobles) for close relatives through marriage etc & the other 14 horns for trusted allies. This could explain the Alticurs or Alpicurs or Greek rendering 'Oultizouroi' as a group of tribes rather than one tribe.
Also although both were famed for cavalry they both had heavy sedentary elements. Both also used a growing bureaucracy from the Chinese for Xiongnu & Romans & Greeks for Huns which showed a higher level of sophistication than ancient writers gave them credit for.
By the 4th century he says that there were 2 Central Asian Steppe empires that were neighbours& probably pushed the Huns west. The Rouran (Avars) who were virtually overlord of the whole of Inner Asia & the Kidarite/Hephtalite empires who were pressuring the Sassanid empire & the Indian Gupta empire.
Regards
Michael Kerr
Quote:The Xiongnu were not Huns, I should mention. That idea was discounted and disproved in the 1940's.Although this thread doesn't seem to be discussing Lamellar armour anymore I still find it interesting as to Hunnic origins & tribal structure so maybe it can be moved or topic name changed. Although I agree with you up to a point that the Xiongnu did not move en masse to Europe I still feel elements of the Northern Xiongnu who probably had a Yeniseian tribal core ruling over various Altaic & Iranian groups migrated west over 2 centuries to become the Huns. Austalian historian Hyun Jin Kim speculates that the heavier concentration of Turkic peoples in the western half of old Xiongnu empire is likely to have contributed to a shift from a Yeniseian core language to a Turkic one & as they moved into Europe probably had a growing Germanic language so yes they would have been multi-lingual. But I wouldn't write off all connections.
Firstly in regard to the name there are the ancient Sogdian letters from early 4th century where the writer, a Sogdian merchant actually called the Southern Xiongnu who sacked the old Chinese capital Louyang in 311AD Huns.
Secondly the placement of European Hunnic cauldrons on the banks of rivers matches the placement of Xiongnu cauldrons near rivers in the Ordos region of Inner Mongolia.
Thirdly the European Huns & the Xiongnu practised a very similar sword cult.
Fourthly the Huns seem to have the same or a very similar military and aristocratic organization to the Xiongnu. Organized into 24 tribes or groups with the top echelon '4 horns' for sons & younger brothers ‘6 horns' Alti (six) Cur (nobles) for close relatives through marriage etc & the other 14 horns for trusted allies. This could explain the Alticurs or Alpicurs or Greek rendering 'Oultizouroi' as a group of tribes rather than one tribe.
Also although both were famed for cavalry they both had heavy sedentary elements. Both also used a growing bureaucracy from the Chinese for Xiongnu & Romans & Greeks for Huns which showed a higher level of sophistication than ancient writers gave them credit for.
By the 4th century he says that there were 2 Central Asian Steppe empires that were neighbours& probably pushed the Huns west. The Rouran (Avars) who were virtually overlord of the whole of Inner Asia & the Kidarite/Hephtalite empires who were pressuring the Sassanid empire & the Indian Gupta empire.
Regards
Michael Kerr
Michael Kerr
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
