Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The concept of the \"Dark Ages\"
#16
Quote: If you think that any trace of Roman Military organization survived in the Early Middle Age your dream may be called a hallucination, exchanging the birth of the Feudal Europe with the prosecution of the Roman Military professional Army it is really Science Fiction, and again I cannot follow you on this way, it's too much for me..:

The Welsh are described as arraying their forces "In The Roman Fashion" when fighting the saxons (i.e. calavry on the right and slingers behind the main battle line).
There are some who call me ......... Tim?
Reply
#17
Ave Omnes,

I am an amateur historian. But I am scheduled to be awarded an MA in history this December. Guess then I'll be a real historian. Anyway I will offer my opinion.

If memory serves, Gibbons and other historians in the late 19th and early 20th centuries referred to the Early Middle Ages as the "Dark Ages". That term was to used emphasize the disappearance of the Roman civilization. The term is no longer in vogue. Contemporary historians note that the Germanic tribes who moved into Gaul and down into Italy did have religion, metal and woodworking skills, and a social order. All of this is true. But the fact is that these tribes were not civilized, they were warlike, aggressive migratory peoples. They were attracted to the trappings of Roman civilization, indeed stood in awe of it. By conquering Roman civilization, they sought to acquire its benefits. It is correct to say that these tribes did not have the knowledge or ability to continue or administer the Roman Empire. As a result, civilization collapsed. The learning, knowledge, engineering, administration, medicine, military science, and trade that marked Rome and had been accumulating for two millennia was lost. It quickly became the "Dark Ages". Western Christendom - Europe as a concept and reality did not appear for another millennium - was a hodgepodge of principalities. The only unifying force was the Christian Church. Even the Holy Roman Empire established by Charlemagne lasted only a brief period.

So it is considered unsophisticated today to refer to the Early Middle Ages as the "Dark Ages". Be that as it may, it accurately describes the condition of Christendom following the fall of the Roman Empire.

Vale,

Petrus Augustinus
(Pete Kleff)




[/b]
Petrus Augustinus
Reply
#18
Hey, Pete!
Europe is STILL a "hodgepodge of principalities."

How dark were the Dark Ages, anyway? Did you get lost going for well-water in the middle of the day? Did you walk into town and never find your way back?

When I finished writing my first history book in 1996, it WAS the Dark Ages. My computer was a pre-86 version of DOC and the printer spit-out rolls of perforated paper. There was no internet and Google didn't exist. Maybe that's why I'm a barbarian. :dizzy:

A few decades ago, I looked for reference scholarship on the Dark Ages and couldn't find anything. I remember purchasing (at great expense) a massive, toe-crushing, work called the Encyclopedia of Late Antiquity. It was 10 pounds of crap, discussing religion, the Eastern Empire, and so forth. It was so dry, I almost went to the hospital for dehydration. Cry

What a waste of paper. A forest of healthy trees died for its publication. "Late Antiquity" my asp. I'm a barbarian. I don't care about dead laws or church ins-and-outs. I care about people and how they lived on a day-to-day basis. We never see any of this in Anyone's doctorial thesis. What happened to the good old Dark Ages, anyway? :mad:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#19
Greetings,

I must admit I am not sure we're not living in the Dark Ages now. Truth is out, obfuscation is in. Religion is out, fad is in. Strength is out, deference in. Ah, well, I stray.

The term "Dark Ages" simply referred to the early medieval period in which civilization essentially disintegrated. Yes, there are multiple principalities, if you will, in modern Europe. But in the early medieval period there were hundreds or more, and many of these were not more than a good size Texas county or smaller.

There are a number of excellent books on Western Christendom in the medieval period. [The concept of Europe did not arise until the late medieval period.] But a good overview of world history is: McNeill, J.R., and William H. McNeill, The Human Web: A Bird's-Eye View of World History (New York, NY: W.W. Norton and Company, Inc., 2003), ISBN 0-393-05179-X, 327 pp. This book addresses world history and Europe's place in it over two millennia.

Petrus Augustinus
Petrus Augustinus
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Roman Concept of Citizenship Eleatic Guest 5 1,562 10-28-2014, 12:11 PM
Last Post: Ariovistus

Forum Jump: