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Roman Tunic - Help
#16
Quote:
Decebalus post=351319 Wrote:On Republican togas it would be sewn only on the rounded part (sinus), sewn because it is not possible to dye a rounded edge equally.

Hm, interesting - I never dove into togae in any kind of detail. Is this personal conjecture or is there research you are basing this on? Are there any finds attributed to a toga, btw? I never heard of any myself ...

That the stripes on the toga were sewn on is from the book: H.R. Goette, Studien zu römischen Togadarstellungen (Mainz 1990) and it seemed plausible to me.
I'm no expert in the textile field, but as far as I know it would have been also impossible or at least very complicated to wave in a rounded border into a garment's rounded edge (wouldn't you end up with a zigzag pattern?).
Or is this assumption wrong?
I've never heard of an original toga to be found - all what we know is from art and literature.

@Tobias: Jvrjenivs has answered this question better than I could. I'm no reenactor so don't know the market for the different items.
Andreas Gagelmann
Berlin, Germany
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#17
Quote:That the stripes on the toga were sewn on is from the book: H.R. Goette, Studien zu römischen Togadarstellungen (Mainz 1990) and it seemed plausible to me.

fair enough - that's one article that is on my "to read" list for quite a while now :-)
I don't necessarily agree with Goette on this one, but admit it is a possibility.

Quote:I'm no expert in the textile field, but as far as I know it would have been also impossible or at least very complicated to wave in a rounded border into a garment's rounded edge (wouldn't you end up with a zigzag pattern?).

You are right in the sense that e.g it also isn't possible to display a curve or a circle in a computer (i.e. zoom in enough and the pixels break down to a stepped or zigzag pattern). As long as the steps are small enough - read weave with fine/thin threads - it will look like a curve except is really looking close up.
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#18
Thanks again!

I have enough information for my tunic now. I will update this thread periodically when the tunic is finished or I have more questions. In the meantime I will read a few books.

I think that I will need your help with the toga, the calcei and with finding an adequate belt for the tunic at a later time again.
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#19
Hi @ everyone


I have found another tunic design with a single center stripe.

[Image: Tunica2_zps795ef278.jpg]

I thought that the senatorial tunics had two stripes (shoulders) and not a single one only (especially after our discussion here). Does anyone have any information about tunics with a single center stripe?
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#20
Hello Tobias,

Under the influence of other people the fashions in the Roman Empire changed of course and also in the case of tunic forms and decorations you will find more different and and complex patterns towards the late Empire.
Also a central stripe came into fashion, see for example the poor guys on the Isola Rizza dish

[attachment=9200]isola-rizza-farbig.jpg[/attachment]

But for the 1st to 3rd Century there is no tunic or a depiction of a tunic with central stripe known to me which might be seen as a social rank marker.
Perhaps the maker of the tunic you posted has limited his research to the movie-scene.


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Andreas Gagelmann
Berlin, Germany
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#21
Quote:But for the 1st to 3rd Century there is no tunic or a depiction of a tunic with central stripe known to me which might be seen as a social rank marker.

There are tunics just like the ones shown on the Isola Rizza dish dated to the 3rd cent. AD (and earlier, I think, can't remember now off hand). One is from a mosaic from North Africa and in Graham's book (amoung others). Another one is from a lying figure from a grave from Palmyra, which I think was 1st cent AD. While these are interesting similarities, they are definitely nowhere near Roman standards, rather typical North African/Near East habit.

Quote:Perhaps the maker of the tunic you posted has limited his research to the movie-scene.

Veeeeeery likely :-)
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#22
I have seen tunics with broad stripes down the centre but they date from the Etruscan period. The only Imperial Roman Senators I have seen with a single broad purple stripe on their tunics are in films and television programmes. As I stated earlier I think this may be a misinterpretation of some Roman frescoes, when only one of the two stripes is visible.

As you can see in the illustrations the later fashion is actually part of a 'T' shaped design which also includes the shoulders.

Tobias, it is best not to use Films as primary sources and even some modern re-constructions both paintings and physical examples should be treated with caution. It is best to always look for the original source material wherever possible.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#23
Yep, Graham is right. As long as you don't have a good basis avoid the internet for your research as much as possible. Get the book by Graham or Pausch cited above in this thread, read it and then follow them up by using their bibliography, There is always more detail to be found out. And sometimes you may even find that something is plain wrong (e.g. I followed up a reference to Plinius in a German book
on shoes that stated Roman shoemakers used glasbowls filled with water in front of a candle to improve lighting in their workshops (Schusterkugel in German) only to find that Plinius never talked about shoemakers in the section cited, but generally about the effect curved glass bodies can have on light. If someone just states something without reference (more or less the norm with many Osprey books unfortunately) also be wary. Sometimes it's not more than a made up myth re-written the umpteen's time.
Make use of a university library or so to avoid spending a small fortune on books and articles. As you are in Germany you can always use "Fernleihe".
Once you know what tunics normally looked like be prepared to spend around 100.- euros minimum for good quality fabric with clavi. Good stuff doesn't come cheap.

End of rant ...
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#24
Thanks @ all!

I was a little bit confused but you have cleared the things up really fast. Thanks!

I have ordered Grahams book (Roman Military Clothing 1) via Amazon last Sunday. Maybe I will get it tomorrow!
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