Whaaat? 3

[Gashford]

oh my good gravy, we are trying to work out whether this guy is for real or just having a laugh at making us wonder if he is for real ...<br>
<br>
A rare find indeed. <p>Graham Ashford
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[Goffredo]

Ah words...<br>
Deconstruction?<br>
<br>
Is bad taste always a matter of context - or out of context- or is there some component that is absolute?<br>
Like beauty I think there is an absolute component and not everything is relative.<br>
<br>
The Peter Pan guy can maybe understood once we get the complete picture of his life, upbringing and consequent self-image. On the other hand the american architect might belong to a school of thought that evolved in some interesting way according to some esthetical theory fashionable in certain circles, much like the original one that designed the Ara Pacis show belonged to the movements of the thirties.<br>
<br>
But after all this deconstruction I believe that one may find himself a residual fealing that the Peter Pan guy is simply in bad taste and that the architect has no real talent.<br>
<br>
The Peter Pan guy is harmless and I simply laugh. On the other hand I have always been cold towards architects as they theorize about esthetics and speculate on human nature making real objects, huge and lasting, that damage not only the present generation but the the next ones too.<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

<br>
<br>
Directly from Richard Meyer's website:<br>
<br>
"The need to promote the methodology of design interventions and town planning in the historical center of Rome and the responsibility to protect and enhance Rome's cultural and monumental legacy has resulted in a program of reorganization and upgrading of the Augustean area located on the east bank of the Tiber River in close proximity to the Ponte Cavour.The location of the site has particular characteristics due to its outstanding historical, archeological and architectural values, and requires a process of enhancement and a level of quality that will ensure the approval from the Italian and the international architectural communities, as well as from the general public.The area will be pedestrianized and the traffic arrangement in all of the zone surrounding the Mausoleum of Augustus and the Ara Pacis will be appropriately modified.The former building which housed the Ara Pacis, a sacrificial altar dating to 9 B.C., was located on the western edge of the Piazza Augusto Imperatore, between Via Ripetta and the Lungotevere. It was unsatisfactory from an aesthetic, environmental, technical and functional point of view, and will now be replaced by a new museum complex, which will create a fitting and secure housing for the Ara Pacis.The new museum complex will employ the most up-to-date exhibition techniques and media. It is designed to be permeable and transparent with regard to the urban context of the Augusteo. In additional to the public exhibition areas, there will be a small auditorium, a museum shop, office areas and storage facilities.The new museum complex of the Ara Pacis will be an integral part of the Master Plan relating it to the urban context of the Augustean Area."<br>
<br>
<br>
Permeable? Transparent? Ouch!<br>
<br>
Take a look to what the first project submitted by Meyer was:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://users.libero.it/sabsab/titus/Meyer_Ara_muro.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
<img src="http://users.libero.it/sabsab/titus/Meyer_Ara_muro2.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
- a 16 mt. tall cylinder to figure an "obelisk" (it will remain in the second project too)!<br>
<br>
- a solid wall to totally cover the two ancient churches and the Octavianus' Mausoleum! (then fortunately cancelled in the second version of the project due to the citizens rumors of disgust)<br>
<br>
- a "fountain" like a stream of water to remember the Tiber!<br>
<br>
That's ignorant arrogance, in my opinion.<br>
He never understood the different beauty, the natural light, the shadows, the Genius Loci of the Urbs. He never understood that the ancient downtown is a delicate jewel that cannot be violated with rough and presumptuous operations.<br>
He cannot do a good thing in the extreme periphery of Roma too, this is his last "work" at Tor Tre Teste. A "church":<br>
<br>
<img src="http://users.libero.it/sabsab/titus/CHIESA_centocelle.gif" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
<br>
The following is the Richard Meier's Acceptance Speech of the 1984 Pritzker Architecture Prize (the "Nobel" for the Architecture):<br>
<br>
"I am extremely pleased and deeply honored to receive the prize.<br>
Mine is an attempt to find and redefine a sense of order, to understand, then, a relationship between what has been and what can beâ€â€

[Anonymous]

That project looks like a standard suburban railway station to me.. It's vulgar.<br>
The Bauhaus and Le Corbusier did as much good to modern architecture as they did harm..<br>
For the first time, architects began to design buildings according to their vision of society. They haven't stopped ever since. What's worse: they don't take risks anymore.<br>
The people building the tallest high rise in Taiwan nowadays do not take risks. They have it all figured out with computers beforeheand.<br>
The man who buil the temple of Artemis at Ephesus would wake up screaming from his nightmares because he did not know how to put the architrave on such tall columns.<br>
He did not know... But he erected the columns anyways..<br>
What balls..<br>
I remember seeing on TV an architect whose name I fortunately don't remember, describing himself as an "architect-philosopher"...<br>
That sent a shiver down my spine, for some reason...<br>
From the architect serving the people, we've moved to the people serving the architect.. <p></p><i></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

I opened a pink page!!<br>
<br>
can't...scream...must..run.<br>
<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>oh my good gravy, we are trying to work out whether this guy is for real or just having a laugh at making us wonder if he is for real ...<hr><br>
You mean Titus or that silly billy in tights? <br>
<br>
Learn [url=http://www.sptimes.com/News/080701/Floridian/On_the_Never_Never_Ne.shtml" target="top]more[/url] about that silly billy, his name is Randy Constan and he may not be much weirder than some of us.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert<br>
<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 11/13/03 4:39 pm<br></i>

[Anonymous]

Ha! I knew it. He did get a call from the (in)famous Howard Stern!! <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

As I'm getting more aged I consider that I've little right to judge anybody! <br>
From the pics Titus posted, that building does not seem one of Meyer's best projects, anyway...<br>
Nevertheless, it would be funny to hear what ancient Romans said of the Augusteum or the Ara Pacis itself when they were built!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

<br>
Judging...humm...<br>
<br>
Well, till the 70s in Italy, when you went to a theatre (paying the ticket) and happened that the play was bad/ugly, or horrible at all, the public normally booed it. In the B theatres the public throwed pomatoes, vegetables and dead cats too!<br>
<br>
Then, the political correctness, drove the people to clap at the end of any play even if the play was horrible. Also that gave the chance to all the mediocres to play their works anyway and everywhere, burying the public under tons of (well paid and sponsored) crap. So finally the public accostumed himself to the crap. This phenomenon is particularly evident in the present low quality and vulgarity of public and commercial TV and movie making.<br>
<br>
The politically sponsored "artists" rage now everywhere imposing their "art" (and monopolyzing all the sponsors' money). And the public clap because not doing so looks as unpolite! No pomatoes or dead cats for them.<br>
<br>
But some pomatoes (or cats) throwing is safe for an artist. If you feel yourself an "artist", it make you think in a safer way if you really are of worth or drive you to agriculture world if you are not...<br>
Then only the best ones can go ahead.<br>
<br>
You know that the Romans designed anything by practical, communication and cosmic meaning (but always with Firmitas, Utilitas, Venustas). Also the roman low people could understand the main part of such works on the practical side, on the aesthetical side and on their deep magical meaning: the absolute beauty, the perfect proportions, the symbolism were understood by almost anyone. Is it so now regarding these new works?<br>
<br>
About the rest of the matter, I'll post in the new thread Antoninus started: "De Architectura". Aitor, let's talk about it there there<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
<br>
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[rekirts]

"the absolute beauty, the perfect proportions, the symbolism were understood by almost anyone. Is it so now regarding these new works?"<br>
<br>
That statement struck such a chord with me that I had to respond. It applies to so much more than architecture. It applies throughout the arts. When I read Titus's comment I thought about modern poetry and literary prose. The stuff that is considered "literary" and "great" is often incomprehensible to most people. Sometimes after reading stories and poems that have won literary awards, I just have to shake my head and wonder what drug the writer and judges were on.<br>
<br>
The modern thinking when it comes to the arts is, if your average, fairly intelligent person doesn't "get" it, it must be great, ugliness and confusion notwithstanding.<br>
<br>
Wendy<br>
<br>
<p>"I am an admirer of the ancients,but not like some people so as to despise the talent of our own times." Pliny the Younger</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rekirts>rekirts</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.cased.ca/images/Eliz.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 11/14/03 4:59 pm<br></i>

[Gaius Octavius Drusus]

Ave Titus:<br>
<br>
Upon seeing those pics (and I wish by IOVI OPTIMO MAXIMO that I hadn't), I found my mind occupied by the desire to cause a great deal of painful injury to the one responsible...<grin>.<br>
Where's my gladius?? I'm itchin' to be putting some hurt on someone....<br>
<br>
Gaius <p></p><i></i>

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

<br>
<br>
Wendy,<br>
<br>
sure, it has to be applied to the other arts too, even if I have to say that there is a difference in my opinion. Architecture imposes its presence over anyone of us in the everyday life, for that it MUST to be understood by anyone.<br>
<br>
Literature, painting, sculpting, poetry, etc are more private: you are not forced to frequent them and you can choose to love them or not. So, in case of "Arts", a work of "research" can be accepted/desired and has right of existence (when really serious): it must exist for the natural development and new paths research of the mankind mind. Of course, finding and recognize the right attempts is the real difficult side. In fact to know where is the new "Beauty" asks for education and study, but they are not enough: the natural "Taste" is also necessary, but who can say to have an absolute Taste?<br>
<br>
Where are the real "Beauty" guardians and sentinels?<br>
<br>
It could look like a desperate concept, but my experience, drove me to really believe that, while before, the "Beauty" appeared everywhere in the world almost naturally, in the XXI century, the "Beauty" victories are deeeply connected just to the "Fortuna".<br>
<br>
Like in a slot machine...<br>
<br>
Drusus,<br>
<br>
I hope you consider the Peter Pan reenactor the only responsible, I'm just a reporter...<br>
<br>
I.O.M.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius<br>
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