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The Valentinianenses Felices
#1
I have maintained the theory that this unit was associated with the Placidi Valentiniaci Felices in the Notitia Dignitatum.

Few pics:

[attachment=9002]ValentinianensesIII.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=9003]Valentinianenses.png[/attachment]

[attachment=9004]ValentinianensesII.png[/attachment]

These closely associate with coins of Valentinian III:

[Image: Valentinian_III_Solidus_425_691788.jpg]

[Image: val3004.jpg]

[Image: ValentinianIII2002.jpg]

My point is, I wanted to know your thoughts on the unit? The Valentiniani were an addition (Again, most think around 419 or 425, formed from Placidia's Gothic Bodyguard), and I have theorized they were sent to Illyria as the Valentinianenses Felices (The Seniores) and Gaul as the Valentinianenses Iuniores (Assuming they were raised in 419 presumably for Castinus' campaign in 422).

Again, thoughts?


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.png   ValentinianensesII.png (Size: 41.64 KB / Downloads: 6)
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#2
Quote:I have maintained the theory that this unit was associated with the Placidi Valentiniaci Felices in the Notitia Dignitatum.
[..]
My point is, I wanted to know your thoughts on the unit? The Valentiniani were an addition (Again, most think around 419 or 425, formed from Placidia's Gothic Bodyguard), and I have theorized they were sent to Illyria as the Valentinianenses Felices (The Seniores) and Gaul as the Valentinianenses Iuniores (Assuming they were raised in 419 presumably for Castinus' campaign in 422).
Again, thoughts?

The Valentinianenses Felices are mentioned in the Notitia Dignitatum as an auxilia palatina unit under the magister peditum and serving under the comes Illyricum, which makes them almost certainly in existence by 394. That would make them a unit that was most probably formed under Valentinian II, at least therefore prior to his death in 392. The 'Valentinianenses' mentioned under the comes Equitum in Gaul are definitely later due to their position at the botom of the list. They may be
a) the same as the Valentinianenses Felices, or
b) they may be a new unit, perhaps the Placidi Valentiniaci Felices, which is mentioned never before and also occupied a 'low' place on the list, being a late arrival.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#3
The Valentinianenses of the Magister Militum Per Gallias are the same as the Valentinianenses Iuniores, it's a copyist' duplication.

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/...ditum.html

The Iuiniores were probably paired with this unit:
Equites constantes Valentinianenses seniores

Both, aling with the Valentinianenses Felices, were probably named after Valentinian II

Well that throws a knife into my shield pattern. I guess I'll have to 'invent' one.

The Placidi Valentiniani Felices are just above the Gratianenses and the Pontinenses (and the Marcomanni which are a duplicate).

Time to go fix my website.
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#4
Quote: The Valentinianenses of the Magister Militum Per Gallias are the same as the Valentinianenses Iuniores, it's a copyist' duplication.
That, my friend, is not a straight fact, but an interpretation. :-)

Quote:Well that throws a knife into my shield pattern. I guess I'll have to 'invent' one.
The Placidi Valentiniani Felices are just above the Gratianenses and the Pontinenses (and the Marcomanni which are a duplicate).
Time to go fix my website.
Are you sure?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#5
Quote:That, my friend, is not a straight fact, but an interpretation. :-)
Are you sure?

The Valentinianenses Iuniores are listed under the Gallic Command. There are a number of duplications of the 'Valentinianenses' in both Illyria and Gaul in the original text.

The Equites Constantes Valentinianenses Seniores are also duplicated once (although it's possible they were paired with a Juniores version of their unit).

As for the website, the shield patterns don't give one. It's likely I could use the Valentinianenses Felices to get an idea of what the shield would have looked like, but we honestly don't know.
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#6
Quote:
Robert Vermaat post=351291 Wrote:That, my friend, is not a straight fact, but an interpretation. :-)
Are you sure?
The Valentinianenses Iuniores are listed under the Gallic Command. There are a number of duplications of the 'Valentinianenses' in both Illyria and Gaul in the original text.
The Equites Constantes Valentinianenses Seniores are also duplicated once (although it's possible they were paired with a Juniores version of their unit).
Nor every 'Valentinianenses unit has to be a duplication. Do you know how many Batavi units exist in the ND? It's possible that one unit is mentioned in one list and then occurs eslewhere in another, which indeed looks like a move. But if the name is not alike, it need not be a copy.

Quote:As for the website, the shield patterns don't give one. It's likely I could use the Valentinianenses Felices to get an idea of what the shield would have looked like, but we honestly don't know.
That's why I would stick with the one you know, or (like Fectio) do a variation on the same theme. ;-)
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#7
Yeah, I'm definitely going to "personalize" it. Tongue

Your shield is the Honoriani Marcomanni Seniores.

Oh by the way, you guys suck in RTW. I mean literally as soon as the lines come to contact it's like an immediate rout.
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#8
Quote: Your shield is the Honoriani Marcomanni Seniores.
No it's not! SHHH! Big Grin
[quote="Magister Militum Flavius Aetius" post=351301]Oh by the way, you guys suck in RTW. I mean literally as soon as the lines come to contact it's like an immediate rout.
That's absolutely NOT the fectienses seniores..
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#9
Quote:Oh by the way, you guys suck in RTW. I mean literally as soon as the lines come to contact it's like an immediate rout.

The self-criticism is the first virtue of any good Commander Mag, probably he is the General who sucks in battle leading them! The guys are working fine for me, and their statistics are the same of the other units .... :wink:
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#10
Considering they're only recruitable in Eastern provinces in the campaign, the reason they do is probably because they get a big negative morale bonus in plains and forest.

Also having seen SBH use the Fectienses and their routing, I can confirm that they aren't exactly the most reliable unit. The Germaniciani are the same way.
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#11
Quote:Considering they're only recruitable in Eastern provinces in the campaign, the reason they do is probably because they get a big negative morale bonus in plains and forest.

Also having seen SBH use the Fectienses and their routing, I can confirm that they aren't exactly the most reliable unit. The Germaniciani are the same way.

First of all, the Fectienses of SBH, did not route they made a tactical withdrawal ... then the situation was not easy, instead in your case .... :whistle:
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#12
In my case they were in the center of my line next to my General, and decided two units of visigothic armored spearmen were too much for them.
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#13
Well they say a bad workman blames his tools. Does a bad general blame his legions? :oops:
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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#14
Oh no, I still won the battle thanks to the unflinching Victores Seniores.
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#15
Quote:In my case they were .... next to my General ....

Finally we have understood why they routed! :woot:
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