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Hello, so recently I found this discussion-http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=72776.15, where one user wrote this:
and there was also in the Danube regions some metal pieces in a early 5th century dig that could - or could not - have been segmentata. Still the general conception among specialists is that lorica segmentata didn't outlast the 3rd century.
My answer is if you have any further information about this metal piece found somewhere in danubian area? Or does anybody know about the publication of it? I would like to know something more, or see the documentation with pictures,
Thanks!
Massimiliano Fedel
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If it existed I would have heard about it. The last piece I can think of is from Leon, which dates to the late 3rd century.
What they think is segmentata may have been Manica, but if it is a Seggie I would be very excited to see it!
EDIT: I found this: http://www.romanarmytalk.com/17-roman-mi...ntata.html
The argument is that there were a few pieces found in Carnuntum where their context was dated to the Early 5th century, and they were either scrap metal or unassembled, possibly cannibalized suits.
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I think I *MIGHT* Have found Images of it:
![[Image: Corbridge-Lorica-parts.png]](http://www.medieval-shop.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Corbridge-Lorica-parts.png)
However, these might be from the Corbridge Horde. I don't know.
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Yea, thanks, these pieces are of Corbridge type (corbridge copper alloy type), where did you find them? If this was used also in 5th century, it means they just repaired old types. I will find something more about it, since I live near of Carnuntum.
Massimiliano Fedel
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I found them on a website that sells "Medieval Replicas."
Again, someone with more experience might be able to determine if these are just images of the Corbridge hoard itself, but they aren't ones I have seen.
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Quote:I think I *MIGHT* Have found Images of it:
However, these might be from the Corbridge Horde. I don't know.
Yup, they're two of my photos of bits of the Corbridge Hoard. They just haven't credited them (against the terms of the CC licence; my hit-men are heading their way at this very moment ;-))
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Thanks Mike Bishop. If you type in "Carnuntum Waffenmagazin" in Google Images it should come up.
I'll keep searching for images, it would be great to find some of the Carnuntum Segmentata Plates.
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Maybe you know something more about this carnuntum find? Or any publication dealing about this problem?
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Quote:I'll keep searching for images, it would be great to find some of the Carnuntum Segmentata Plates.
You can see some of them here
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Quote:Maybe you know something more about this carnuntum find? Or any publication dealing about this problem?
It used to be said that the bone ear laths made the Waffenmagazin late as they were thought to be Avar in origin. Avar laths are actually different in shape to the Roman ones so that little idea goes out the window. The deposit is more likely to belong to the first half of the 2nd century AD, but it is difficult to be certain at this remove.
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Considering the Avars didn't arrive until the 550's I can understand why the bone lathe dating needed to be looked at.
Could the Bone Ear lathes be Hunnic? They were more similar to Sauromatian bone lathes.
The Intercisa Bowl Halves date at least part of it to the late 3rd century (at the earliest) - not out of the question for segmentata (the Leon one dates to late 3rd).
Thanks!
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Yes the Avar sarrived later, but Pannonia was lost of Roman control in the end of th 4th century and was occupied by the Goths and later Huns, so yes it could be hunnic.
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someone argued, that there have also been intercisa hemets near of this segmentata piece.
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Well no... Pannonia wasn't "lost to Hunnic control" in the late 4th century. As of 395, the majority Huns were still North of the Black sea, no further than the Maetois, and would not intrude into Pannonia until the reign of Charaton beginning in 411.
Charaton was king of the Carpathian Chunni, but anything east of the Dniester was under the control of independent Hunnic groups, like the Akatir (Akatziri), Bazgurs, and the Saragurs.
The Huns of Charaton seem to have moved into Pannonia by the time Aetius left the Hunnic court in 417, but after his death the Huns once again feuded amongst themselves, and Constantius Felix was able to push out the intruding Huns in 427. Charaton's death must have been after 425, but before 427, as the Huns were able to send Aetius Bucellarii in 425, but in 427 were unable to defeat the incompetent Felix and (presumably) the Illyrian Field Army.
By 429, the Huns had reconsolidated themselves and Octar was King of the Carpathian Huns, while Rua seemed to be king of the Huns in the area of Wallachia. After Octar's death fighting the Right-Bank Burgundii in 430 (not the Burgundians of Gundicar), Rua became king of both groups, just in time for Aetius to arrive in 433 and once again request aid from them. Rua died some time after 435 (Hughes and Heather both suggest 439) and then Aetius formally cedes " the parts of Pannonia closest to the River Savia" to Attila, king of the Carpathian Huns (Bleda was Wallachian Huns). This likely refers to Pannonia Valeria and Savia, as the Eastern Romans seemed to have control of Pannonian Secunda at this time, but the Huns obviously didn't follow provincial borders.
So yes, in the 5th century it is possible for Hunnic lathes to appear in Carnuntum. And yes, there were Intercisa Helmets found nearby.
***I should note most of what I have said here is based off the Works of Otto Maenchen Helfen and Peter Heather, a little bit of Hughes as well.***
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Quote:So yes, in the 5th century it is possible for Hunnic lathes to appear in Carnuntum. And yes, there were Intercisa Helmets found nearby.
No, the ear laths are definitely Roman; that I have from Jon Coulston (and he knows his archery artefacts). There are no Intercisa helmets in von Groller's Waffenmagazin report that I'm aware of.
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