comitia centuriata

[Bryan]

Can someone help explain how the comitia centuria was formed. I'm having trouble understanding it, based off the available stuff. I'd love if someone could break it down in an easier to understand method.

[caiusbeerquitius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Assembly

[Bryan]

Went there already and didn't really find it very satisfactory.

[antiochus]

Bryan,

I’ve sent you two papers on the Century Assembly. However, I’m not sure how to answer your question as what I could say could be too basic and appear to be insulting your intelligence. However, I will give it a shot. The Roman populace was divided into two groups, the classis, which encompassed those of Class I and the cavalry. The infra-classem consisted of Classes II, Class III, Class IV, and Class V. The five classes amounts to 170 centuries:

Class I 80 centuries
Class II 20 centuries
Class III 20 centuries
Class IV 20 centuries
Class V 30 centuries

By adding the 18 centuries of cavalry, which belong to Class I, the number of centuries increases to 188 centuries. In addition to this there are two centuries of musicians, and two centuries of artificers, which brings the number of centuries to 192 centuries. To this must be added one century of accensi. The total is 193 centuries.

The 80 centuries of Class I and the 18 centuries of cavalry, if they are in agreement, have a combined vote of 98 centuries (one vote per century). The infra classem (Classes II to V and the musicians and artificers) have a combined total of 95 votes. Therefore, the classis (Class I and the cavalry) win. It’s a rigged system so the rich always outvote the poor.

Dionysius and Livy have different numbers of voting centuries and they also differ in which class the musicians and artificers vote with. Dionysius has the two centuries of artificers voting with Class II, and the two centuries of musicians voting with Class IV. Livy has the two centuries of artificers voting with Class I and the two centuries of musicians, plus one century of accensi voting with Class V.

Dionysius states the poorest citizens are only permitted one vote. Unfortunately, this comment has not been understood by academics. If they only have one vote, then what is their full and correct number?

The Century Assembly as given by Dionysius and Livy has some serious major errors. Whoever the source is Dionysius and Livy used, this source has confused the organisation of the legion for that time with the Century Assembly. This should be obvious with the 180 centuries of Class I to V divided into an equal ratio of iuniores and seniores. Where in the history of mankind does a society divide its army into such a ratio? Most countries would produce a ratio of 3 to 1. A serious study of the campaigns in Dionysius and Livy will reveal the correct ratio. Also in two consular elections, Livy is pretty clear in showing the seniores did not vote. Ovid makes the proverb:

“Some think that the young men used to hurl the feeble old men from the bridges, in order that they themselves alone should have the vote. He who believes that after sixty years men were put to death, accuses our forefathers of a wicked crime.”

Added to this is the fact that the centuria praerogativa are always mentioned as iuniores. So if you are confused about the Century Assembly, I do not blame you because it is corrupt.

Steven

[Bryan]

Steven,
Thanks for the explanation and the papers. Couple questions:

- Was there a set amount of people in each century? Or were the numbers generally equal for the number of people that qualified for each class.

- Were the centuria named or numbered?

- Would a Roman citizen identity himself by his centuria, as he would his class and tribe?

- When would a Roman be assigned to a centuria? During the census upon adulthood? If he were to be elevated to a higher class, he'd have to wait till the next census to be inducted into his new voting centuria?

- Would male family members all be in the same centuria?

- Would the dilectus be based off the centuria or the tribe?

Thanks in advance.

[antiochus]

Bad news is I am not sure I can answer some of these questions.

Bryan wrote:
Was there a set amount of people in each century? Or were the numbers generally equal for the number of people that qualified for each class.

To answer this I believe it would require revealing the most important aspect of my research into the Century Assembly. Everyone would have the information to then reconstruct the tribal system.

Bryan wrote:
Were the centuria named or numbered?

I have no idea and I am not aware of any information to throw light on the question. They must have had a system of identification. Maybe someone else might know.

Bryan wrote:
Would a Roman citizen identity himself by his centuria, as he would his class and tribe? When would a Roman be assigned to a centuria? During the census upon adulthood?

What I can make out is before the introduction of the Tribal Assembly, a Roman citizen would be allocated to a homogenous century organised by class before voting on the field of Mars in the Century Assembly. After the introduction of the Tribal Assembly, when voting in the Tribal Assembly, a Roman citizen would be allocated to a heterogeneous century. Therefore, the Century Assembly equates to homogenous centuries and the Tribal Assembly equals heterogeneous centuries. I really am giving too much away here.

Bryan wrote:
If he were to be elevated to a higher class, he'd have to wait till the next census to be inducted into his new voting centuria?

I have no idea when this would occur.

Bryan wrote:
Would male family members all be in the same centuria?

I have no idea. These questions remind me of an incident I had with Prof. Ridley about my conclusions on the battle of Cannae. After giving him the study of the number of men, which conformed to Plutarch’s figure of 88,000 men, Prof. Ridley commented that my work was incomplete because I failed to supply the names of the 88,000 men. He was joking of course.

Bryan wrote:
Would the dilectus be based off the centuria or the tribe?

It is based on the tribal centuries. Before the 35th tribe is created, the men are taken from tribal centuries then distributed among the various legions. In this manner, every legion will have an equal number of men from each tribe. After the completion of the 35 tribes, depending on the number of legions levied, in a consular army, one legion will have half the number of tribes levied and the other Roman legion, the remaining half. So if 20 tribes are levied, one legion will have men from 10 tribes and the other legion the remaining 10 tribes. For Cannae, the Romans do not use all the tribes for the levy, and those tribes that are chosen for the levy (more than likely by lot), only provided 25% of their tribal centuries towards to the levy. The tribe is a two tier system. One tier is for voting and the other tier is for the levy. After the tribes were created in 241 BC, the Romans began expanding the tribes. However, during the republic, the Romans kept the number of centuries in a tribe at a constant number, but expanded the size of each century. So let’s say for example a tribe had 10 centuries each of 100 men. Overtime a century was expanded to 200 men. When it came to voting the tribe had 10 centuries (10 votes), but when the levy was conducted, the tribe has 20 centuries of 100 men.


Steven