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Spears for horseback recommendation?
#1
Sorry for posting this here, I didn't really know where to put it.

I've been doing a good deal of mounted archery(when I can - horses don't much like wintery weather, especially here in Pennsylvania) but I'm thinking of getting good with the cavalry lance. My only problem is a severe shortage of places that actually sell that sort of stuff.

I was originally planning on buying a twelve to fourteen foot dowel rod, in line with the length of the xyston or kontus. I found out that literally nobody sells dowels that long; several hardware stores sold wooden rods potentially that long, but they were made of pine, and I don't want my lance to shatter with the first impact.

Eventually, I found a that Kult of Athena sells seven foot ash rods for making spears or quarterstaves. Not what I wanted, but I work with what I've got.

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?...Spear+Pole

The only problem that remains is getting a spearhead and butt-spike. The latter isn't much trouble; I can simply get their Greek Spear Buttcap or Flat Spear Buttcap. I will probably get the flat one because of safety issues.

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?...ar+Buttcap

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?...r+Butt+Cap

I am concerned, however, about the spearhead. The things can be honed to a very sharp edge; I don't know how sharp they come out of the box, but I would assume that they are sharp. I am thinking of getting the Small Spear Head; it sure is pretty small, but I don't plan on doing much more than hitting immobile targets(fruit, foam, thin plywood, etc.).

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?...Spear+Head

However, the danger is that, as I may be swinging the spear in what I may be doing, the spearhead might accidentally hit the horse's head. At best, this could spook the horse - at worst, I could hit the horse with the spear head itself, and badly cut up its nose. I am thinking of getting the Hanwei Viking Throwing Spear Head, which would be safer(or so I assume), although given that it is twice as expensive, I could always try and make a spearhead; a friend of mine is building a forge in his backyard.

Are there any recommendations for any of these problems? Thanks! Sorry for all the links.
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#2
One of the guys here on RAT can make you a better spearhead and buttspike than what KOA sells.

Dave Akers I recommend for US, and Robert Wimmers for Europe.

I ordered a spearhead from Dave two days ago in fact, looking forward to it's arrival. My spiculum and verruta I got from him are great!

Also, manufacturer spearheads are dull out of the box. And those Greek Buttcaps are for... well... Greek. Don't know what era you're aiming for, but Roman buttcaps (AFAIK) were simpler.

I'm planning to buy a Pine wooden rod for my infantry spear, as I don't expect having to do much more than jabs with it. My Ash pole is already on my Spiculum anyways. If you have a local woodworker, or possibly a lumberyard, they can get you the ash you need.
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#3
I'm sure there are much better quality spearheads, but my budget is only so great; handmade weapons are pretty generally much more expensive(as opposed to cut out with a CNC router, I assume), or am I mistaken?

And as far as I know, pine is a poor quality wood for spears, it's awfully soft. High heeled shoes can leave imprints on some kinds of pine in flooring. Even if it is fine for spears, isn't getting spears out of the same material the ancients used more.... realistic? I think?

(By the way, I'm getting a buttspike just to balance it. I'm not going for any specific era.)
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#4
My spearhead and Buttspike was only 35, I'm sure Dave can get you a similar price.

You're right about Pine, of course, but honestly if they needed spears I doubt they cared about what kind of tree they cut. I'm only getting pine because I can't find Ash newarby (well... not true, I could cut a tree down)

Frankly, you don't need a buttspike to balance it, the buttspike is so you can stick it in the ground, or a person.
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#5
Oh Evan no,that was the price because I had it on hand and,you've been a repeat customer. It costs me more than that to make one :grin:
Indian made is the best bet,spearheads are alot of labor and,fuel to do right and,the majority of reenactors will just buy a dagger blade welded on a flaired pipe for less than material costs in the U.S. anyway :twisted:
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#6
For a Roman impression, non of the ones shown would be suitable for a cavalry lance. 7 feet is a good size for horseback, anything much longer will be very unyeilding. The buttspike does serve as a counterweight, Evan has probably never held a spear on a horse. This top one is the cavalry lancehead made for Jurjen and Moi, you would want something like that. These are not sharp except for the point and will withstand massive abuse hitting targets at speed. I still have a few left.


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Salvete et Valete



Nil volentibus arduum





Robert P. Wimmers
www.erfgoedenzo.nl/Diensten/Creatie Big Grin
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#7
Thanks Robert and Dave. I did not know that about the buttspike, it always seemed the wood would make a good enough counterweight
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#8
Depends on where you grip it. On a horse, you want an extended reach, so the grip is a bit back from the middle. Jurjen and Moi can tell him the best way to hold a spear. My theory is the underhand grip will cause you to loose the spear on impact riding by, while an overhand grip allows a rotation and the extraction of the spear as you ride by. Do not forget you are impaling a human, who goes down on impact, unlike a great big bale of stationary hay. A smaller bale set on one end and hit in the upper (torso) area should topple to best mimick the motion.
Salvete et Valete



Nil volentibus arduum





Robert P. Wimmers
www.erfgoedenzo.nl/Diensten/Creatie Big Grin
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#9
Thanks for the replies. I know seven feet is awfully short for a horseback lance, but I work with what I've got, not with what I want.
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#10
Quote:Thanks for the replies. I know seven feet is awfully short for a horseback lance, but I work with what I've got, not with what I want.

That's ok as long as your enemy's lance is shorter! Wink To a certain extent making do is what everybody across the ages does - your enemy is seven feet away instead of a sword's length. But then, I'm an experimental archaeologist and not a re-enactor. You will only have a real problem with the shorter lance if your impression is a Later Roman one rather than Early.

On safer ground (for me anyway as I know many will disagree with the above), if you want to help your horse get used to have a lance around and not to object too much when you accidently knock them on the head (it is going to happen so better be prepared for it), start with a shorter length - but clearly not a riding whip - and just carry it as you ride. As the horse gets used to it, start moving the "lance" around a bit more - lie it down it's shoulder, tap it (very gently) on the backside but make sure you're sitting tight because that can cause bucking :evil:

Another way to help de-sensitise your horse is to tie a pole up loosely in its stable/stall if you have one, and let it get used to dodging round it as it moves about. The pole swings gently and the horse gets used to it on its body. This is a polo trick and certainly helps with younger horses but make sure you watch the horse when you first try this to make sure it does not frightened itself. Once it is calm about it, walk away. Hang the pole up for longer periods of time and the horse will soon ignore it. BUt never leave the pole tied up over night and always when someone is on the yard in case of an accident. Horses, as you know, are unpredictable beasties.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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