Cheiroballistra Parts

[Anonymous]

Okay, so how many pieces of Roman artillery are out there? I have a scorpio partially assembled. I have the spring frame, case with slider, and winch complete, the base is almost done. Next comes the plating and modioli.<br>
<br>
Kevin <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Hi Kevin!<br>
I too have a partially completed scorpio, and a carroballista in the works...like you, my scorpio is complete except for the base, modioli, and armour plating. If I could just figure out how to make the modioli, the rest is easy to me...I'm thinking of making them from iron pipe, and doing a bit of welding. I know, that's not how the originals were constructed, but it's not like I can just run down to the store and pick up a set of bronze ones, and even if I could, on my budget I probably could not afford them anyway. So I am thinking i don't have much alternative other than to try to make them myself...I know of at least one archaelogical find of iron ones. What do you have in mind for yours? Where are you located? <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Lucius,<br>
I don't remember the cost of my modioli, in any case, you are at the other side of the pool and better if you ask prices by yourself there.<br>
Maybe welded iron modioli are not so 'authentic' or good-looking but they work perfectly and they would keep your machines functioning until you decide to go for bronze ones!<br>
About 'blue-prints', you only have to visit my webpage and download the .pdf file with my paper for JRMES 11 to see my interpretation of how must the iron frame be assembled (of cours, mine is not the only opinion...)<br>
<br>
aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Thanks Aitor, I will indeed check out your paper from the JRMES. Yes, I think the iron modioli are the way to go, at least for right now. I really appreciate all of your help, and am very thankful to you! <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Lucius:<br>
Yes, steel may be the way to go. D. Baatz, on his catapult page, lists the Lyon find as the only forged iron ones. Still, I think this is the way I will go too. I hope to copy the Caminreal modioli as closely as possible. Aitor was kind enough to provide me with most exact information of this important find. I have also followed Aitor's suggestion for mounting the Frame to the Case. His interpretation, based on Philon, seems to make a most rigid and practicle connection. It solves the problem of what the hole below the slider was for on the Caminreal find and the Cremona battle shield.<br>
<br>
I live in British Columbia, Canada. Bronze here is extremely expensive. By using steel or iron I will only have to worry about the machining costs.<br>
<br>
Kevin <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Nice to "meet" you Kevin! I am located in south Georgia, USA. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

And when your frames are finished, you'll start experiencing the 'pleasures' of dealing with the cord-springs. What would be a racing-car without its engine?<br>
Good luck and keep me informed, I love to see other machines!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Sure thing, Aitor, if you would like, perhaps when it is finished, I could send you photos of it, and maybe Kurt would be interested too? <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[Aluscladiusmaximus]

I am in the uk.<br>
I have actually built three of the larger Iron Framed artillery ranging from 2" to 4" and sold two of them. One of the artillery pieces I built had iron washers. I had mine fabricated out of tubing and a ring cut out of 3/4" plate. The other washers I turned from thick walled tubing. I would think you could have the metal parts fabricated by a small engineering company for less than $700. Making artillery is not a cheap game if you do not have a metalworking workshop. The metal work for the 4" "FerroBallista"(my name for them) cost about £400 about 10 years ago.<br>
You can contact me on [email protected] .<br>
<br>
on a different note I have started casting my own tri-bladed roman arrowheads. I have made several tanged heads and a socketed head so far. <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Tri-bladed arrow-heads... Are they made of iron? They should be. I ask this because you say that you cast them...<br>
Iron triple heads would be great to equip any Roman archer. Simon James has published a good description of the arrows (and catapult bolts!) recovered at Dura.<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=aitoririarte>Aitor Iriarte</A> at: 8/2/04 12:06 pm<br></i>

[Aluscladiusmaximus]

My tri-bladed heads are bronze. I am sure I have seen plenty of bronze examples as well as Iron ones. I have also made some Iron tanged bodkins by turning them on a lathe and then grinding them square. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Aluscladiusmaximus: How thick was the tubing you used?<br>
If I am reading the diagram correctly, the walls on the Caminreal moioli were about 7mm thick.<br>
Just out of curiosity, what type of bolt did you use? How long and how heavy, for the 2" machine?<br>
<br>
How far does your machine shoot?<br>
<br>
Aitor: Any suggestions on stringing the cords? I understand that they should be pre-stressed, but how much?<br>
<br>
Kevin <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Kevin, If you don't want to push the machine to its limits or to have superlative performance, you only need to pre-tension the springs nominally (i.e. by hand). Otherwise, you can construct a stretcher. After my experience with horsehair and my new limited experience with sinew, I'd rather say that the stretcher was mainly intended for sinew springs, because after stretching, horsehair rope gives way and only recovers rather slowly, unlike sinew rope, which recovers quite rapidly.<br>
I advise you to use rather thick cord, followings Philon's statement. Dont trust Marsden's correction, he was wrong and mistook radius for diameter!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Aluscladiusmaximus]

On the 2" machines I got tubing that was 1" wall thickness. it was just enough I could have done with 1.5" wall thickness.<br>
I normally use nylon rope for the cord bundles except for my manuballista where I used polyester. The manuballista has longer rope bundles in relation to its diameter than other artillery pieces so I could use a stiffer rope. With modern rope you shouldn't use a stretcher because they are not as elastic as sinew rope. When they wrote stretch the rope until it is 2/3 its original diameter they mean you should stretch the rope until it is twice its original length. If you try this with nylon rope it will go beyond its elastic limit and will just stretch. The force will probably be too much for your frames as well.<br>
I have used modern materials because I have made my artillery for re-enactment purposes and in re-enactment you cannot afford to have artillery that doesn't work when it rains and where you need to take the rope off and soak it in a bath of oil every couple of weeks. In the roman army there was plenty of manpower to maintain natural ropes in the modern world there isn't.<br>
On a 2" I would use 10mm rope twisted and not braided as braided ropes are designed not to stretch. Put as much rope in as will possably fit and pull it as tight as you can by hand you don't want any strands which are loose as they will generate little or no power. I use a needle made of thick wire<br>
to help pull the rope through the gap. and wind the rope neatly as you can get more in if it is carefully layered.<br>
<br>
I didn't get to play with my machines as much as I wanted as I generally didn't finish them until just before the delivery date but I could get 100-150 yards.<br>
<br>
Alus Cladius Maximus <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Alus Cladius Maximus, thank you for your description of the rope springs in your machine. This is very helpful! <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>