The Sword vs. the Spear

[Olaf]

Some fencers in the HEMA community believe that the sword and buckler fencing of the I.33 "Tower Fechtbuch" might be based on an earlier spear and shield fencing style, as most of the techniques can be employed with a spear just as well. Some have even noted similarities to Zulu spear and shield fighting.
Of course this only works with spears of suitable length and balance. A Doru or Sarissa is clearly optimized for reach in thrusting with the point, the blade only helping in cutting exposed flesh if the point has missed its target marginally.
A Ger or a Hasta can be employed more felxible but a one handed strike with the shaft will not help much against contemporary protection and is blocked or deflected by a shield much more easily than a chopping or thrusting sword.
The Phyrric dances more likely were drills exercised to train coherent movement of a group of warriors, not individual fighting styles.
There were teachers of Hoplomachia in Hellenic Greece, but they would most likely have taught fighting with the Xiphos or Machaira.
Regarding the training of a Roman Miles it is stressed by both aforementioned accounts of using Gladiators as trainers and training at the Palus, which it taught the Miles to advance under cover of his shield.
This "defend first and attack only under cover" is stressed in all European treatises on combat from medieval to modern times.

[Mark Hygate]

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Regarding the training of a Roman Miles it is stressed by both aforementioned accounts of using Gladiators as trainers and training at the Palus, which it taught the Miles to advance under cover of his shield.
This "defend first and attack only under cover" is stressed in all European treatises on combat from medieval to modern times.

Yay! But not for this thread. :wink:

[Bryan]

Olaf,

Thank you for contributing to this thread, you seem like a person who can add some wisdom and experience to this conversation.
I've been watching some of your videos and have a few questions:

- Have you any videos of group fights were half the reenactors are equipped and drilled like the Romans and against some other adversary?

- Which target zones do you think are attacked the most when the murmillo/provocator/secutor/Gaul/samnite gladiator style is used? Limbs? Head? Torso? Leg?

- In consideration with the additional protection to the limbs (manica or padding) and head (massive visored helmets) that gladiators wore, and with the lack of torso armor, does this change the dynamics of fighting, in relation to the Roman soldier in a battle line, who lack limb protection, wear smaller helmets with open faces, and often were armor to protect their torsos?

- I notice that when opponents go shield to shield, stabbing over an opponent's shield and thrusting downwards at the upper shoulders or juncture of neck seems to be one of the most common attacks. How hard is this attack to accomplish with a longer sword, like a gladius hispanensis, as opposed to the extremely short swords/daggers that gladiator reenactors are using? In your opinion, does a shorter blade make this move more effective? How about with a Thracian sica? Does the curve of the blade make this attack easier to accomplish? Does *leaping help by adding height for the thrust? (*not recklessly jumping)

- The use of the scutum shield in jabbing to create openings seems prevalent in many of the videos. Do you think the maneuver would have been used in actual combat in battle lines or just reserved for single combat in a free movement setting? How quickly can it be performed by a trained person without leaving a massive opening?

- When fighting with a scutum, in your opinion, should the participant attempt to keep the shield firmly braced at knee, elbow and shoulder at all times or should they accept the titling of the shield and just learn to use it to their advantage?

- In many gladiator events, and certain movies (commonly used by Brad Pitt's Achilles in Troy), I've seen a common attack, which resembles the "Superman Punch" common in mixed martial arts. Is this an effective attack or something done simply because it looks cool?
Demonstration at 10 second mark in video

Also, in the previous post, you mentioned:
Regarding the training of a Roman Miles it is stressed by both aforementioned accounts of using Gladiators as trainers and training at the Palus, which it taught the Miles to advance under cover of his shield.
This "defend first and attack only under cover" is stressed in all European treatises on combat from medieval to modern times.

Can you elaborate on this? What constitutes "advanc[ing] under cover of his shield" and "defend first and attack only under cover?"
Do you mean don't lead with or unnecessarily expose unprotected body parts?
What other ancient sources describe the use of the Palus, other than Vegetius?