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Heteny late roman helmet is ready.
#16
Quote:Did most helmets have the leather strap and buckle configuration holding the cheekpieces and neckguard on?

Evan, most cheek pieces were probably attached with iron hinges, some with leather straps (like the Koblenz helmet). To my knowledge also the most neck pieces were attached with leather straps. Deir el Medineh and the so-called Christie´s helmet had the neck guards attached by iron hinges. I still have my doubts about the authenticity of the Christies helmet, though Wink...
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
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#17
Is the Christies this one? Cause I would agree that it's not authentic.

http://www.romancoins.info/D4617487x.jpg

Looks like a mix of a Berkasovo, Intericsa, and those 3rd century ones that overlap at the bottom (like a Buch/Rainau)

As for cheek piece attachment, thanks for the info. I thought they mostly used leather straps.
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#18
You`re welcome, Evan! The thing why I thought Christies helmet is a fake is this: the nose guard doesn`t resemble any surviving examples of late roman nose guards. In fact the nose guard resembles only one reconstruction, which has no basis on real life examples. The shape is quite the same, also having a "ridge" which I have never seen on a real life example. The basis of this is the reconstructed and hypotethical nose guard which you see usually attached to the Budapest jewelled helmet (it has also the original nose guard, which is rarely seen attached to it). I think the person who made the Christie`s helmet copied this fantasy nose guard, thinking it is based on a real life example. Gotcha! Wink

Then again the Deurne and Berkasovo helmets have a slight ridge on their nose guards :errr: ...
[Image: fake_zpsa0235591.jpg]
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
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#19
I think they copied the nose guards of 5th century Baldenheims, which have a slight ridge and are sometimes attached to the Helmet in the same manner.
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#20
Quote:I think they copied the nose guards of 5th century Baldenheims, which have a slight ridge and are sometimes attached to the Helmet in the same manner.

Yes, maybe the cut-outs in the bowl where the nose guard might have been attached. I must say I have never seen one of those nose guards and I thought they were from the 6th c. CE.?
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
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#21
Quote:The thing why I thought Christies helmet is a fake is this: the nose guard doesn`t resemble any surviving examples of late roman nose guards

Reminds me of a discussion we had about this helmet here

Some of the more unusual details might count against its being a fake - those odd little projections or lugs at the ends of the 'eyebrows', for example, which aren't based on known examples and seem to serve no purpose. Why would a faker add a detail like that?

Similarly the crossover cheekguards - easier to just make them shorter, like other late Roman examples. The bowl, meanwhile, resembles a rounder version of the Persian example from Dura.

There are indeed doubts with this helmet (especially as there seem to be two of them!), but I don't think we should be too quick to dismiss it entirely...
Nathan Ross
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#22
Good points, Nathan. I would say that this helmet is "probably" genuine.
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
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#23
Quote:As for cheek piece attachment, thanks for the info. I thought they mostly used leather straps.

For the most part yes, however there are examples from the Koblenze finds of buckles to attached the cheek pieces, and even a slot and pin system like the Newstead armor. Clearly there was a wide variety of ways to go about attaching them. There are for instance at least 4 late roman helmet examples which have buckles for the neck guard. So there use of buckles for that seems to have been more common then the cheek pieces.

Quote:Similarly the crossover cheekguards - easier to just make them shorter, like other late Roman examples.

Its also easier to make a fake when there are not other examples to compare too. So the fact that it is easier to make short cheek pieces to me doesn't make it any less likely that both helmets are a forgery. IMO
Markus Aurelius Montanvs
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#24
Quote:
Magister Militum Flavius Aetius post=349375 Wrote:I think they copied the nose guards of 5th century Baldenheims, which have a slight ridge and are sometimes attached to the Helmet in the same manner.

Yes, maybe the cut-outs in the bowl where the nose guard might have been attached. I must say I have never seen one of those nose guards and I thought they were from the 6th c. CE.?

Some date to the 5th century, but most date to the 6th. The Baldenheims themselves have a built-in noseguard (tit's not riveted on and doesn't extend down the face) but some of the other spangenhelmets of that era do have noseguards.

Baldenheim:
http://www.slovane.cz/pic/zebrovky/16.jpg

Can't find any images of it, but there's one 5th century spangenhelm that has the ridge on the noseguard.

As for the crossover cheekpieces, that's part of what inclines me to believe it's a fake.
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#25
I would like to see the one with a nose guard. I do believe that they had nose guards, because the cut-outs in the helmet for them seem to be rusted and not covered with gold.
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
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#26
This is a Baldenhiem helmet with a silver nasal piece. I have some doubts as to the authenticity of the nasal portion of the helmet though. Perhaps a later/modern addition


[attachment=8686]Spangenhelm-16.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=8687]Spangenhelm-18.jpg[/attachment]


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Markus Aurelius Montanvs
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#27
Thanks Marcus, somehow the whole helmet looks "iffy" and more like a sassanid helmet!?
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
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#28
MMFA: the helmet on your picture definitely had a nose guard, its remains can be seen, looking like eyebrows.
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
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#29
Quote:Thanks Marcus, somehow the whole helmet looks "iffy" and more like a sassanid helmet!?

Maybe. Its definitely authentic IMO, and looks to be constructed exactly like other Baldenheim ones, or more perhaps like a Spangen helm.


[attachment=8688]Spangenhelm-15.jpg[/attachment]


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Markus Aurelius Montanvs
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#30
Quote:Thanks Marcus, somehow the whole helmet looks "iffy" and more like a sassanid helmet!?

It's not a Baldenheim, that's a spangenhelm, and yes the noseguard is a later addition (the type is a Wenceslas Noseguard). I believe the original Spangenhelm underneath the noseguard is of Frankish origin.

@Mark George Little

Actually I think that's the leather lining on the Baldenheim's edge. Most didn't have a noseguard but the edge of the helmet followed the shape of the forehead:

[Image: 4.jpg]

the spanganhelmet I was referring to with the Nasal I cannot find. This (Burgundian?) one is similar to the one I was referring to. This one here dates to the 5th century as well:

[Image: 860px-Spangenhelm-Sinj.JPG]
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