Soldiers\' Equipment

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Hello everyone,<br>
I am aware that the Roman army underwent some vast changes in structure and equipment during the late Empire.<br>
I have a few questions that perhaps you all can help me with. How much of the individual soldier's equipment changed, or stayed basically the same? I know that the pugios were no longer used, and I assume that soldiers began to use various non-issue type single-edged knives. How about the patera, or the loculus (leather satchel)? And were the knee-length trousers still used?<br>
May I have your comments and opinions on this? <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luciusaureliusmetellus@romanarmytalk>Lucius Aurelius Metellus</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://photobucket.com/albums/v384/Lucius68/?action=view&current=EarlyImperial.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 8/6/04 6:14 pm<br></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!<br>
<br>
Wow, that's a pretty big question! Short answer, EVERYthing changed over time. Some of the changes were subtle, some dramatic. All the weapons changed, including scabbards, and the armor and helmets changed. Belts changed a lot. Shields held on as curved rectangles at first, then went to ovals. Shoes changed greatly in appearance, but still had hobnails. Tunics went from sleeveless and short-sleeved to longsleeved (and less baggy). Bare legs went to short trousers and then to long trousers.<br>
<br>
Marching kit is a little harder to pin down, and the changes might have been smaller. Single-edged knives would have been in use by any soldier who needed to cut his food for several hundred years, whether he was wearing a pugio or not. I really can't tell you much about the patera and marching pack, and I don't know how much information is available about those. I'm guessing that there is very little known about later packs, since we have very little besides Trajan's Column and a couple vague descriptions for the early Empire.<br>
<br>
You can get an idea of the changes over time from Connolly or Warry or a selection of Osprey books. But for more detail you'll need to dig farther.<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
<br>
Matthew/Quintus <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Thanks Matthew!<br>
I was just wondering about some of the specific "little" pieces of equipment. I have several items of kit from an earlier era, such as the loculus that I carry extra socks,etc. in, and us late Roman reenactors have to eat and drink just like earlier period ones, so, since there is scant evidence, I was basically wondering if it would be ok for us to use certain items, such as the patera and the loculus, since not much is known of the late period equipment, as you said.<br>
What about the hamata, Matt? I was reading somewhere on another post that dagged edges for a late hamata would not be correct. Why not? <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

There is a late Roman depiction of soldiers marching on Constantine's Arch [url=http://sights.seindal.dk/photo/8163,s299f.html" target="top]frieze[/url] It is by no means so detailed as Trajan's Column is, but it is period, at least!<br>
Late sources portrait mail shirts only with straigt hems. They seem to be longer than the Imperial ones and are often long-sleeved.<br>
<br>
Aitor<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=aitoririarte>Aitor Iriarte</A> at: 8/9/04 8:46 am<br></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Hello Aitor!<br>
I hope you are doing well this week, my friend. Thank you for your info on the mail shirts. I was wondering about that, as I have seen some miniatures showing the dagged edges on a late shirt, but I wasn't sure of the authenticity. Most of the Osprey books on the late Romans depict plain edges on the mail shirts, although one illustration in "Late Roman Infantryman" shows a soldier in a mail shirt with dagged edges, as does one in "Late Roman Cavalryman". I do understand, however, that the Osprey books are not always correct, and I don't know where the artist based his idea from. Also, have any of you ever seen the book "Imperial Rome at War"? It has magnificent paintings by Angus McBride, and it shows quite a few late Roman soldiers of various types in dagged mail shirts, but there again, I don't know their accuracy. I am certainly not arguing with you about this, however, as I too, have never seen any archaelogical or sculptural evidence for the dagged edges, but I do think it looks nice...<br>
Aitor, I asked this question in another post, but do you have any photos of your knife drawn from its scabbard, so that we could see the blade? Was this type of knife found anywhere other than Spain? I ask because I think it is a beautiful knife, and I read your paper "Late Roman Military Equipment From the City of Iruna/Veleia (Alava, Spain)", and I saw the remains of a similar knife found there. It seems to be a very functional design, and is very unique. I am very interested in it. But perhaps a "British" soldier in the Roman army may not have had one of that type?<br>
Anyway, sorry for rambling on so long! I hope you all have a nice day! <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Lucius,<br>
Your question about hamatas with dagged lower hems should be better answered by somebody with a better knowledge of the earlier Imperial army than mine.<br>
If I recall well, those dagged hems are a prerrogative of Trajan's Column and Marcus' one (?). I don't think that there is any surviving real hamata of that kind, but that is hardly surprising, because mail is usually recovered as tiny bits with some rings still linking together or as shapeless, rusted bumps...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

I have seen pictures of a small statuette of an auxiliary(?) wearing a mail shirt with a dagged lower edge. I believe it dates from the early second century but can offer no more than this.<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

I don't know for certain, but just logically thinking, it would make sense that mail edges could still have been dagged. Surely it was only a decorative feature, and as my buddy Cavetus says, there are only so many ways to decorate chain mail. I tend to agree with him on that one.<br>
On a different chain mail topic, does anyone know if Romans used chain mail made with butted links? I know that they also used alternating riveted and punched or welded rings, but I wondered if they would have used the simpler process of just butting the rings, particularly in the late Roman empire. Does anyone know of any archaelogical examples of butted rings in Roman mail? <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>