Caesar\'s 4-3-3 (football anyone?)

[Mark Hygate]

It came up again in background reading and I'm fairly sure I've narrowed it down......

But, can anyone help point me at any other legionary deployment of the 'cohort period' that isn't just considered 'normal'? Without the single example at the Battle at the Ebro (Spanish Wars iirc) where it specifically states Caesar deployed his legions 4-3-3; legions otherwise just seem to be 'deployed as legions'.

I don't mean where cohorts are detached, as singletons (uncommon), as pairs (pretty common), or in groups; but when a legion is deployed (open battle just like earlier, manipular, legions).

Are there any other references, or is it just this one of Caesar's that supports the contention of him still using a, modified, 'triplex acies'?

For this then might be an 'abnormality', perhaps just caused by terrain, but noted because of that; and otherwise we might accept Vegetius' much simpler 5-5 as 'normal'?

In short, I've seen this often quoted as how a cohort-legion was deployed, but is that the only reference?

[Gunthamund Hasding]

As I see you cite this: Caesar, Civil Wars I.64
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...s/1C*.html
this is technically no battle though and might be explained little bit earlier

In the same campain we find Caesar, Civil Wars I.41 :
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...s/1B*.html

"Within two days Caesar reached the camp with nine hundred horsemen whom he had reserved as a bodyguard for himself. The bridge which had been broken down by the storm was almost repaired: he ordered it to be finished at night. Having made himself acquainted with the character of the country, he leaves six cohorts to guard the bridge and the camp together with all his baggage, and on the following day, with his whole force drawn up in three lines, he sets out for Ilerdaa and halts close to the camp of Afranius, and, having waited there for a little while under arms, offers his foe an opportunity of fighting on level ground. The opportunity being thus allowed him, Afranius leads out his forces and posts them half p63way up the slope under shelter of his camp. When Caesar learned that it was only owing to Afranius that a pitched battle was not fought he determined to pitch his camp at an interval of •about four hundred paces from the lowest spurs of the mountain, and in order that his men might not be panic-stricken by a sudden onset of the foe while engaged on their task and so be prevented from working, he forbade the erection of a rampart, which could not fail to be prominent and visible from a distance, but ordered a ditch of •fifteen feet width to be constructed facing the enemy. The first and second line remained under arms as they had been posted at first; behind these the work was being secretly done by the third line. So it was all completed before Afranius could become aware that the camp was being fortified. Towards evening Caesar withdraws the legions within the fosse and bivouacs there under arms the following night."

So another mention of the three lines, although here is clear why he used this battle order (he has 2 lines infront while the third is digging in), maybe because he is following the adversary he might use the same battle order as in the my previous citation.


Now further in the same Book I.83:
"83 The Afranian line was a double one of five legions. The third line of reserves was occupied by the auxiliary cohorts. Caesar's line was threefold, but the first line was held by four cohorts from each of the five legions, next to these came three reserve cohorts, and again three more, each from its respective legion; the bowmen and slingers were enclosed in the centre of the force, while cavalry protected the flanks. The battle array being thus drawn out, each commander seemed to have gained his purpose, Caesar not to engage in battle unless compelled, Afranius to hinder Caesar's works. However, the situation is prolonged and the battle array is maintained till sunset; then each side withdraws to camp. On the next day Caesar prepares to complete the defence works he had started; the enemy make trial of the ford of the River Sicoris to see if they could cross. Observing this, Caesar throws his light-armed Germans and part of his cavalry across the river and places frequent outposts along the banks. "

I can't read this in Latin unfortunatelly but maybe we get some help "Caesar's line was threefold, but the first line was held by four cohorts " the "but" was something that always puzeled me, and I interpreted this earlier the normal one was not 4 but 3 or 5, I bet for 3 but then was it 3-3-4 or 3-4-3 or even better 1 legion 3-3-4 next 3-4-3 lol. Anyhow the "bowmen and slingers were enclosed in the centre of the force, while cavalry protected the flanks" that I found also interesting

Read the Pharsalus battle too where Caesar starts with 3 lines that go to 4 lines (4-3-2-1), we see
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...s/3D*.html

"At the same time, having noticed the arrangements mentioned above, fearing lest his right wing should be surrounded by the multitude of cavalry, he hastily withdrew individual cohorts from the third line and out of these constructed a fourth line, stationing it opposite the cavalry, explaining what his object was and reminding them that the day's victory depended on the valour of these cohorts. At the same time he commanded the third line and the whole army not to join battle without orders from himself, saying that when he wished this to be done he would give the signal with a flag. "

we know there were 6 cohors in third line
"Caesar, observing it, gave the signal to his fourth line, which he had composed of six cohorts"

and the victory
"94 At the same time Caesar ordered the third line, which had been undisturbed and up to that time had p331retained its position, to advance. So, as they had come up fresh and vigorous in place of the exhausted troops, while others were attacking in the rear, the Pompeians could not hold their ground and turned to flight in mass. Nor was Caesar wrong in thinking that the victory would originate with those cohorts which had been posted opposite the cavalry in the fourth line, as he had himself stated in exhorting his troops; for it was by them that the cavalry was first repulsed, by them that the archers and slingers were slaughtered, by them that the Pompeian force was surrounded on the left and the rout first started"

P.S sorry about my english

[Mark Hygate]

Gelu,

That's really kind, thank you - I shall study all carefully and ensure the context.

[Gunthamund Hasding]

well I am no expert but I suppose this is why Ceasar commentaries survived through the ages: his strategy was and I am sure still it is teached at a lot of schools.

I will continue with a little bit more background from my notes as I was in a hurry yesterday and I will go to the African War

if you read through Chapters 1-36
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...ar/A*.html

Ch. 2
"Six legions and two thousand cavalry had now been mustered. Each legion, as soon as it arrived, was embarked on the warships, while the cavalry were shipped aboard the transports"

so he had a small force with him and he uses later a 1 cohort battle line
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...ar/B*.html

Ch. 13
"Meanwhile Caesar deployed a single straight line — the most his small numbers allowed; he drew up his archers in front of the line and posted cavalry to cover his right and left wings, with instructions to p165take care they were not enveloped by the mass of the enemy's cavalry; for he supposed that he would be engaging infantry troops in the set battle line"

that had to change formation in an very interesting manner presummably while still engaged in battle?:

Ch 17
"17 Meanwhile Caesar, aware of the enemy's tactics, gave orders for the line to be extended to its maximum length, and for every other cohort to turn about, so that one was facing to the rear of the standards, while the next one faced to their front. By this means with his right and left wing he split in half the encircling enemy force; and having isolated one half from the other with his cavalry, proceeded to attack it from inside with his infantry, turning it to flight with volleys of missiles: then, after advancing no great distance for fear of ambush, he retired to his own lines. The other half of Caesar's cavalry and infantry carried out the same tactics. This task accomplished and the enemy being driven far back with heavy casualties, Caesar began to retire to his own defence positions, maintaining battle formation. "

it is really worth to read through the whole thing to better understand

Now later the deployment of Scipio in 4 lines (the first cavalry and elephants)

Ch. 41
"These forces were drawn up, according to his custom, in four lines, the first consisting of cavalry deployed in line of squadrons, interspersed with elephants equipped with towers and armour. Thus deployed, Scipio "

further down http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...ar/C*.html
a mixt line left 3 lines right 2 lines
Ch. 60
60 Caesar's battle line, on the other hand, was disposed as follows, my description beginning with his left wing and working round to his right. On his left wing he had the Tenth and Ninth legions: in the centre the Twenty-Fifth, Twenty-Ninth, Thirteenth, Fourteenth, Twenty-Eighth and Twenty-Sixth. As for the actual right wing, he had posted there some of the cohorts of his veteran legions as well as a few cohorts from the legions of recruits besides. His third line he had concentrated on his left wing, extending it right up to the central legion of his line, and had arranged it in such a formation that his left wing was composed of three lines. His motive for doing this was the fact that, whereas his right flank was supported by his fortifications, he was hard put to it to know how his left flank could bear up under the hordes of enemy cavalry; and it was on this same left flank that he had concentrated the whole of his own cavalry and, not feeling too confident in it, had detached the Fifth legion to support this cavalry, and drafted light-armed troops at intervals among the horse. As for his archers, he had posted them in various formations at definite points throughout the line, but chiefly on the wings.

further in the African war again 3 lines:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...ar/E*.html
Ch. 81
he himself disposed his army in three lines: the Tenth and Seventh legions he posted on the right wing, the Eighth and Ninth on the left, while five cohorts of the Fifth legion were stationed on each of the actual wings, forming a fourth line to contain the elephants; and his archers and slingers were deployed on either wing, and the light-armed units interspersed among the cavalry.

These commentaries are indeed fascinating