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How to sleep in a contubernium
#61
When working at Chesters and Housesteads Roman Forts it was interesting to note that the barrack blocks at Chesters fort are just about the same amount of cubic area as modern soldiers today are given to live in.
The blocks at Chesters would have had a possible timber type partition where in the rear of the room there may well have been four bunk beds, and equipment would have been kept in the front of the room with even a charcole fire in the floor of the outer room in the winter for warmth.


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Brian Stobbs
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#62
Robert said, "My guess would be that this did not reflect on guard duty in permanent camps/forts etc"
Well of course. It's assumed.contubernial tents were found in temporary camps, or perhaps permanent camps still under construction. We were talking about sleeping in tents, so it figures that it would be in temporary camps, doesn't it?

Permanent camps had barracks. I doubt that they slept on the floor in the barrack environment. Surely they had bunks of some sort. What's your point, Robert? Maybe I missed it, sorry.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#63
I think that any guard duties would have been done a basis of contubernia both in camps or in forts so that way there would be no disturbance whatever in tents or otherwise barracks.
In fact when we hear about centurians being corrupt I'm sure he would go to the first contubernium and say "I need 8 men for guard duty tonight" hold out his hand and if crossed with a few Denarii that group did not have to do it, it would maybe always be the guys who did not have enough cash who got clobbered.
Brian Stobbs
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#64
Quote:In fact when we hear about centurians being corrupt I'm sure he would go to the first contubernium and say "I need 8 men for guard duty tonight" hold out his hand and if crossed with a few Denarii that group did not have to do it, it would maybe always be the guys who did not have enough cash who got clobbered.

Funny you should mention that; I just got to the part in 'Roman Military Dress' where Graham quotes a letter from Claudius Terentianus, who complains that the Optio jacked the pickaxe Terentianus' father sent him. I guess you just can't trust an NCO, eh? ;-)
-Ryan

-Cave a sinistra manu utebatur pro bellator.
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#65
Quote:What's your point, Robert? Maybe I missed it, sorry.
We were discussing this in the first place because the problem proposed here was originally that not all 8 men could sleep in 1 tent. hence our discussion about who was/wasn't on guard, who was disturbing who etc. My point was that these circumstances (sleeping arrangements, guard duty) were different in permanent forts. Brian already picked it up. Confusedmile:
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#66
I just saw this thread on sleeping in a contubernium tent, and had some evidence and suggestions to add to the overall discussion.

There is some literary evidence for the bedding that milites used from the accounts of famous Roman commanders who set the example by avoiding luxuries or living under similar conditions as the soldiers they led:

As one of the measures to restore discipline in the army before Numantia, Scipio Aemilianus forbade the soldiers to sleep in beds, and
Quote:"was the first one to sleep on straw."
(Appian, Wars in Spain, 14.85)

Plutarch records that Gaius Marius won favor with the common soldiers through his personal frugality and enduring their hardships, noting:

Quote:"For as a general thing it would seem that every man finds solace for his labours in seeing another voluntarily share those labours; this seems to take away the element of compulsion; and it is a most agreeable spectacle for a Roman soldier when he sees a general eating common bread in public, or sleeping on a simple pallet, or taking a hand in the construction of some trench or palisade. ..."
(Plut. Mar. 7.3)

It is interesting that in both of the above passages both "straw" and "simple pallet" is a translation of the Greek word στιβάς, which can mean a bed of straw or rushes, or a mattress stuffed with straw, esp. one used by soldiers. (source: Perseus Greek Word Study Tool)

Ammianus Marcellinus commented on the Emperor Julian's sleeping habits:

Quote:"But Julian could wake up as often as he wished, without any artificial means. And when the night was half over, he always got up, not from a downy couch or silken coverlets glittering with varied hues, but from a rough blanket and rug, which the simple common folk call susurna."
(Ammianus 16.5.5, John C. Rolfe translation, 1935)

Rolfe footnoted that a susurna is "A coarse blanket made from the fur or hide of an animal."

These references support some of the suggestions earlier in this thread that soldiers in a contubernium tent used straw or hides for bedding.

I was a little surprised by the suggestion that 8 men could not sleep together at the same time in a contubernium tent. There is enough physical space in a tent that roughly matches Hyginus' dimensions. This was noted by Carol van Driel-Murray in her analysis on the Vindolanda I leather tent. Here is her supporting illustration showing a possible sleeping arrangement:

[attachment=7922]contubernia.jpg[/attachment]

I have slept with 5 other reenactors in a papillio in a roughly similar arrangement, but have never seen it tried with 8 total (there always has been excess tentage available in my and other reenactment units that has made this unecessary, in my experience). Certainly there must be some members of this forum who have tried to sleep 8 to a tent as an experiment at some point, considering the hundreds of Roman events that have been held around the world in the last 20 years. Wasn't Junkelman's march over the Alps done with a contubernium sized unit with one papillio and a mule? What did they do? I don't have Legionen des Augustus handy — could someone check to see if this is mentioned therein?


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Mark Graef
Clash of Iron
clashofiron.org
Staff Member, Ludus Militis
www.ludusmilitis.org
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#67
Brian, I'm not being pedantic, but do you have anything document wise I can look at/go to for data on the area a modern soldier has? I'm working on a book at the moment, and a detail like that would scratch a real itch in one of the chapters .... Smile
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
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#68
Back on Tents ... I have never slept in an 8-man goatskin tent. A few groups have them. Can you fit everyone in with all the kit too? In addition, I'd love to know what sleeping layout you use. In the British round bell tents of the Boer War, I read that soldiers slept with their heads at the centre pole, like the spokes of a wheel.
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
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#69
I do think that the picture shown by Mark of Carol van Driel - Murray's idea of sleeping may have been different where they would have had four on each side with feet to the centre with a narrow gap down the centre of the tent between the feet. This was how the tent arrangement was when I did my military training however that was 51 years ago for me.
Brian Stobbs
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#70
Hi Brian,

Not enough space for that (in my experience). Feet and lower legs of the soldiers on one side extend beyond the feet of the soldiers on the other side, if you get what I mean. There would be no gap in between them - at least, that's my experience in our tents.
Valete,
Titvs Statilivs Castvs - Sander Van Daele
LEG XI CPF
COH VII RAET EQ (part of LEG XI CPF)

MA in History
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#71
Can 9people fit (8 men, + one calo) in an ordinary Roman tent, with equipment, if everyone spoons?
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#72
I think you need a bigger tent mate.
Brian Stobbs
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#73
Quote:Can 9people fit (8 men, + one calo) in an ordinary Roman tent, with equipment, if everyone spoons?

According to Hyginus' description of a contubernium layout, 5 pedes (Roman feet) of space directly in front of the tent is reserved for arms; the next 9 pedes for baggage. The bulkier equipment would not be stored inside the tent.

When my unit comrades and I are quartered in a Roman camp set up this way, we lay 2 scuta next to each other flat on the ground transversely just in front of the papillio; on top of these 2 scuta are placed 4 helmets and 4 lorica; over the top of these are placed 2 more scuta with their leather covers (which are waxed or oiled to be waterproof). This makes a rainproof "shed" which keeps everything relatively dry. The same arrangement is repeated on the other side. (we usually have extra loaner gear to make 8 sets). This leaves a space of about 5 feet clear in the middle for entering and leaving the tent. Pila can be planted upright next to the scuta or laid down lengthwise along the outside edge of the contubernium space.

In the next 9 feet of space we store entrenching tools and items that were probably packed on the mule, such as the handmill and cooking grate.

I can't say that this is exactly the way it was done, but it fits within the parameters of the evidence.

As far as the calones go, I could only speculate as to where and how they slept. They may have stayed closer to the mules on the picket line under simpler shelter and not tried to squeeze in the 8 man tents. But if everyone spoons on their sides, instead of all laying on their backs as depicted in the van Driel Murray sketch, another body could probably fit in. If the numbers are right at my next event, I will ask for volunteers to lay in the tent too see if this is within practical physical limits.
Mark Graef
Clash of Iron
clashofiron.org
Staff Member, Ludus Militis
www.ludusmilitis.org
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