How to sleep in a contubernium

[Vitruvius]

Salvete Omnes,
I just had a thought: Normally each contubernium had a mule to carry their tent and grain grinder, and
,I would hazard a guess, kthe sleeping gear. It makes sense to me
Salvete Y'All
Larry ( Vitruvius) Mager

[Robert Vermaat]

I just had a thought: Normally each contubernium had a mule to carry their tent and grain grinder, and ,I would hazard a guess, kthe sleeping gear.

A mule for infantry, a spare horse for cavalry, or later in time, wagons.

[M. Demetrius]

...and the one who drew the short straw had to sleep under the mule.
Heh. 8+)

[Vitruvius]

Amen, Frater Dave

[Quintius Clavus]

I, too, have done winter camping, many years ago in scouting. We did lay straw down as ground insulation.

We have to remember, as I think was mentioned earlier, people before modern times were far more used to sleeping very close to each other. I personally don't see that every single contubernium would have one or two men on guard duty at night all the time. Certainly the more warm bodies in the tent, the warmer it would be just because of body heat. Could Roman soldiers have shared blankets, without it implying anything more? Again, in pre-modern times, people often shared blankets and beds for the warmth.

Having been to Lafe the one time in 2009 (financial woes have kept me from being able to get back - to my regret), I slept with my Roman socks on and sandwiched between wool blankets. In late October 2011, we had a freak snowstorm and I had no heat for several days and temperatures in the low 30's for several days. I was nice and toasty with socks on - keeping my feet warm seems to help the rest of me stay warm - and with wool under and over me. Wool retains body heat like nothing else. I keep my bedroom at between 50 and 55 degrees F and that is how I sleep through winter these days.

[Vitruvius]

Ave Quinton,
Great Points!!!! Another thing might have worked besides socks is the use of the Sagum since it is made of wool. I have winter camped using my wool Peacoat and wool socks (A modern aside: A "Tea light Candle" within a glass jar keeps a tent nice and warm...doubtful the Romans ever had, let alone used such an item). And also, yes, people were not as touchy about sleeping close together..... again, sarcastically, Thank You Queen Victoria:-x!! Look @ it on the bright side, sleeping like sardines in a can saved on any number of things......braziers, new tents, new recruits.....You get the general idea.
Salvete Y'All
Larry (Vitruvius) Mager

[Densus]

I personally don't see that every single contubernium would have one or two men on guard duty at night all the time.

I have my doubts about this too. If you are guaranteed to have broken sleep every night for a period of days you will begun to degrade, do it for weeks and you start to see health problems and Roman armies could be on campaign for months. Humans need an interrupted nights sleep regularly to keep functioning at their best. Your sleep would not only be broken by your time on duty, you would probably also be woken by your tent mates changing over at regular intervals during the night because space in the tent was so tight.

Added to that you would have the command control problems of every single tent party providing sentries. The Century officers would also end up with broken sleep every night to supervise their men.

It seems far more likely to me that complete sub-units would provide sentries on a rotational basis so some nights you would be on guard for part of it as a century or cohort and other nights you could get a complete night's rest.

[Vitruvius]

I agree with You Sempronius,
I hadn't thought about it in a while, but when I was in the service back in the day, Each "squad" (We are talking Navy bootcamp) stood "Night watch" about every 6 days.....each sailor in the "Squad" standing a 4 hour watch from about 4 in the P.M. to 6 a.m. so I think that it would have worked.
I must caution against Us attributing too much of our modern ways to people back then, but then again, somethings NEVER seem to change!
Cheers,
Larry (Vitruvius) Mager

[Frank Anthony]

Hi everyone,
It's been a while since I've written anything but I found it odd that no one mentioned that most of the campaign season would have been during good weather. Depending on the area the snow can take a while to thaw in the spring and of course there's always rain in the spring but I'd think in most cases one might not need a tent at all. As for the size of the tents and the number of occupants, did Romans sleep propped up like the middle ages(I can't think how that would work in a tent but its one of the reasons we such small medieval beds)? Also sleeping on ones side drastically increases the amount of people that could fit. I personally usually don't sleep in a tent while camping but normally carry a 2 man tent for 4 people in an emergency. The fit is tight but when you've been hiking all day and get just being dry is a lot of comfort and the problem is that it's too hot. Just some things and questions I've been thinking about whilst reading this thread. Very fascinating.

[Robert Vermaat]

If you are guaranteed to have broken sleep every night for a period of days you will begun to degrade, do it for weeks and you start to see health problems and Roman armies could be on campaign for months. Humans need an interrupted nights sleep regularly to keep functioning at their best.

To the contrary. In fact, one single stretch of sleep is a modern invention. Segmented sleep, or twosleep, was the normal thing to do for milennia, until the invetion of street lighting. people still slept for about 8 hours, but they woke up inbetween to read, pray, or even go visit the neighbours. Sexual intercourse was also more popular after the first sleep. By the later 19th century this way of sleeping began to disappear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep
So it's even likely that there were men awake while others slept, or even the whole tent could be busy halfway the night! Difficult for us to understand, the practice died out and we can hardly imagine this.

Your sleep would not only be broken by your time on duty, you would probably also be woken by your tent mates changing over at regular intervals during the night because space in the tent was so tight.

If you're really tired this won't wake you up, is my experience.

Added to that you would have the command control problems of every single tent party providing sentries. The Century officers would also end up with broken sleep every night to supervise their men.

A simple duty roster would take care of that. Each contubernium would know who was to stand guard at what our. Each man would wake the next on duty. Officers who controlled them would of course also have their watch duties, so I don't see their sleep being interrupted either. They don't have to wake up to check up on each change of the guard, that's the job of the officer on duty.

It seems far more likely to me that complete sub-units would provide sentries on a rotational basis so some nights you would be on guard for part of it as a century or cohort and other nights you could get a complete night's rest.

Sure, but that would leave the question as to what unit could guard the whole camp/fort/site? How many men would have to be on guard at any one time?

[Densus]

To the contrary. In fact, one single stretch of sleep is a modern invention. Segmented sleep, or twosleep, was the normal thing to do for milennia, until the invetion of street lighting. people still slept for about 8 hours, but they woke up inbetween to read, pray, or even go visit the neighbours. Sexual intercourse was also more popular after the first sleep. By the later 19th century this way of sleeping began to disappear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep
So it's even likely that there were men awake while others slept, or even the whole tent could be busy halfway the night! Difficult for us to understand, the practice died out and we can hardly imagine this.

I hadn't heard of this before and it is an interesting concept. But when you are talking about maintaining a guard around a perimeter all night it isn't as simple as a sleep, followed by a period awake, followed by a sleep. The first pair on duty would be awake for a period then have the rest of the night off, the last pair would have most of the night off followed by a period of duty before dawn etc. So you would still be messing with their normal sleeping pattern every night and suffering the effects of that. Doing it over a period of months when my children were babies didn't make it feel any more normal.

If you're really tired this won't wake you up, is my experience.

It certainly isn't my experience. I have been woken by sentries changing over in bashas, tents, portacabins and shipping containers especially when we have been quite densely packed.

A simple duty roster would take care of that. Each contubernium would know who was to stand guard at what our. Each man would wake the next on duty. Officers who controlled them would of course also have their watch duties, so I don't see their sleep being interrupted either. They don't have to wake up to check up on each change of the guard, that's the job of the officer on duty.

That is a workable solution too but it isn't without its problems. If the duty officer is from Century A and he finds there are two sentries missing in the sector manned by Century C how does he find out who is meant to be there? If the off going sentries have to wake the oncoming ones in every tent you would be looking at the number of sentries actually on the wall dropping by 50% immediately before each change over as one of them goes to wake the next pair. To my modern head having a full sub-unit or sub-units on duty at a time is much more simple, easier to control, easier to ensure constant coverage and more logical. I do get that doesn't necessarily make it more logical to a Roman mind.

Sure, but that would leave the question as to what unit could guard the whole camp/fort/site? How many men would have to be on guard at any one time?

Sub-units would do it on a rotational basis. In a permanent base the command element would know exactly how many men it took to ensure adequate security and in marching camps a formula for how many sub-units were needed for a particular length of perimeter would be very easy to work out. 25% of the unit manning the walls at all times seems excessive to me.

[Bryan]

Sempronius Densus, you have opened up a whole new can of worms. This is getting interesting.

In a marching camp (say Polybius' description) what exactly was guarded and why? Where were guards needed? How many guards on the ramparts of the perimeter? Were they stationary in front of the ramparts outside the camp or atop the rampart itself? How often were towers and true log palisades erected? Who guarded the gates? Was it an honorary position? What about the praetorium? The tribune's tents? Did the non combatants have to pull guard (look after the mules)? Were the guards in the centuries' living area a roving guard or were they stationary? Was their purpose to prevent theft?

[Vitruvius]

Ave Ada m and Robert et all,
I had forgotten about segmented sleep until it was mentioned. My very late Grand father Mager used to get up in the middle of the night for two or three hours and when I asked him after spending the night @ his place, ( A treat for me, not so much for Grandmother....it's a long story!), he told me that, growing up in the country, everyone did that. That time was the 1890s up through the 1930s. He also told me that He remembered His parents and Grandparents doing the same, so it makes sense..at least to me.
During my time in the Navy, although I didn't remeber Grandfather's info, I experienced Segmented sleep on occasion standing watch, depending on the weather. Good Weather was a 4-6 hour watch; Poor Weather, 2-3 hours, Typhoons.....all bets were off!!!!!
Both of You make excellent " arguments" and it is a pleasure to discuss this with You all
Salvete,Fraters,
Larry ( Vitruvius) Mager

[Vindex]

Not wishing to cause undue excitement over the experimental archaeological possibilities, but in very cold conditions (Northen Europe and the desert) it is much warmer to strip off naked and sleep together than keep clothes on. The clothes are then kept dry and warm by lying on them and woollen blankets/cloaks are the covers.

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Adam,
Indeed good points to think about.

About the sleep-disturbance you are right, depending on the actual period of a watch duty (do we even know that?) I guess the sentries who get the middle shift are the ones best off. IF a duty represents say 3 hours, 3 shifts covering a night could be manageble, and if you shift the duties all the men still get a reasonable sleep over the period of a week. Your solution of entire units taking the guard duty does not solves the problem of losing sleep, other than entire units getting very grumpy after their guard duty is over.

I guess the amount of disturbance getting to you is personal. I not not mind getting up at night and getting back to sleep afterwards. My wife often put our eldest in bed with me, I could sleep easily even if the baby was wide awake next to me. No doubt every person is different in that aspect.

As to a duty officer needing to know who the sentries are, that why a duty roster is for, with the names and units written down in perfect order. No doubt if a pair did not turn up, an nco would be sent to investigate, and in the morning there would be hell to pay. I'm not sure who should be waking the next guard. My guess would be that there is someone on each shift would has to do that, either on duty with the duty officer or in the ranks of the unit on call. I'm not sure how your solution would be better, other than an entire unit being awake for the whole night (and very sleepy in the morning). If you have some men on duty and some asleep, how is that differnt from my solution? Either a few men of each contubernium sleep most of the night, or the entire contubernium is on guard/asleep all of the night?