Salvete Omnes<br>
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Yes I know there's kind of already a thread on this, but I need some urgent info and things seem a bit slow on RAT (probably as our seasons our getting underway).<br>
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I've got some brass and copper cookware that I want to make safe for use on our fire set. My attempts at tinning on these items have not been so wonderful. I'm getting a lot of metal oxidation before the solder is starting to bond.<br>
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Can anyone give me some pointers with my technique or know of any products available in the UK that would make life any easier.<br>
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Avete<br>
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Mummius <p></p><i></i>
Did I understand this correctly? You want to tin something that's going to be used on fire? Wouldn't the tin melt?<br>
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Anyway, my experience with tinning is about the same. The trick is to heat it enough, but not to overheat it. Then wipe the excess tin of. After it cools down you have to sand, clean and buff it up. Don't expect it to look perfect, I've seen some real Roman works with explicit wipe marks on it.<br>
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Hope this helps you a bit further.<br>
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Greetings,<br>
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Jurgen/Quintilianus <p></p><i></i>
Ave,<br>
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I have found that using the leadfree solder as described in Leg XX's site is quite easy, but you can not do a very large area at once (maybe 3 square inches). Also, the smoother your starting surface the smoother it goes on. I've also found that once you mess up and area, it's very hard to get it smooth again. What I'm sure about is if this is effective for a pot which will be heated, or if it's even safe for that! Metal poisoning is bad<br>
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Here's what I want to order and try:<br>
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www.caswellplating.com/ki..._plate.htm<br>
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It seems like it woud be great for all our Roman Tinning needs. Again, an inquiry as the the "heatability " of it is required.<br>
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Another option would be to inquire with local plater shops, but I've found they tend to be very limited ie. only chrome, only bronze etc.<br>
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Vale Quintus Florentius <p></p><i></i>
Ave,<br>
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OK. I got the tinning set from caswell. I got both the plug 'n plate for small stuff, and the 1.5 gallon kit. The plug'n plate is not up to the task of a patera, its too small. I have not fired up the tank kit yet but I have read the directions, which show how to set up for tinning the inside of a pot, and also say that in the past copper pots were tin lined by melting in the tin and wiping it around. Now it's much easier to electroplate. The basic idea is to fill the very clean and grease free pot with the electroplating fluid, attach the positive electrode to the pot, and suspend the tin piece anode in the liquid, the just let it tin away. There kits are made for cookware and so are therefore good for any reasonable cooking heat, and of course food safe. Even the melt on tin should be good for any reasonable cooking heat.<br>
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I don't know what's easily available in England, but theres got to be something. For a smoother appearance, I'd suggest wearing gloves and heating the pot all over to keep the solder flowing as long as possible. I would also try to to get a data sheet on the solder you're using to see how safe it is.<br>
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Interesting that the Romans figured out that brass/bronze was poison (its actually the copper), but loved those lead pipes...<br>
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Good Luck, love to hear how it works out<br>
Valete, Quintus Florentius<br>
LEGVIVICPF<br>
www.florentius.com <br>
<img src="http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v212/jaredfleury/tabulimgif.gif" style="border:0;"/> <p></p><i></i>
Salve<br>
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Lead is poisonous, but this wouldn't affect lead pipes too much. The lead quickly oxidises and stays stuck to the affected surface, so the 'raw' lead in a new lead pipe will only come into contact with the water rushing through for a shot while.<br>
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Celer. <p></p><i></i>
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I've just got a copper frying pan, and a nice large brass pot for cooking ... are you telling me that I can't use them?<br>
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I've never heard of copper being poisonous. <p></p><i></i>
~ Paul Elliott
The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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Acids in food (wine, vinegar, tomatos, et cetera) <strong>WILL</strong> leach copper out of the container, and into the food - which is why modern copperware is tin lined. Copper in your food is definitely NOT healthy<br>
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One of the reasons copper is prized in the modern kitchen, is that it spreads heat very quickly and efficiently throughout the body of the cooking vessel, without 'hotspots' that can result in burned food.<br>
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I once had a Cordon Bleu trained chef as a girlfriend, and her <em>personal</em> set of pans in her home cost more than my first two cars put together... I learned a lot when was in her kitchen.<br>
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She would send her pots and pans to a professional tinner once a year or so to get refreshed - several of these companies are on the 'net, and their prices are quite reasonable.<br>
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<p>Scythius<br>
LEG IX HSPA - COH III EXPG - CEN I HIB<br>
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- FIDELITAS - - VIRTUS - - MAGNANIMITAS - </p><i></i>
Adam MacDonald
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org">www.legio-ix-hispana.org
Ave Scythius,<br>
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Thank you! I wonder if you could get the inside of a canteen clean enough to tin it? Probably not, but that would be cool huh? I found my tinning stuff on the web but did not think to look for a "tinner"- good call.<br>
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Vale, Quintus Florentius<br>
LEGVIVICPF<br>
www.florentius.com <p></p><i></i>
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I'll see if I can find the address of the guy in LA that tinned some of my stuff - he does a huge amount of work for the professional chef-types...<br>
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<p>Scythius<br>
LEG IX HSPA - COH III EXPG - CEN I HIB<br>
<br>
- FIDELITAS - - VIRTUS - - MAGNANIMITAS - </p><i></i>
Adam MacDonald
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org">www.legio-ix-hispana.org
Salvete<br>
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Been away for a bit, quelling Celts on the Welsh Border and starting our annual fort build.<br>
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Thanks for some good responses, I was hoping to use a professional kitchenware tinner to assist, but have been unable to find anyone willing in dear old Brittannia.<br>
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I guess it's going to be a hot day in the workshop then.<br>
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Valete<br>
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mummius <p></p><i></i>
Ave,<br>
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O.K. I have set up the tank plating kit, and used it as desribed above in my previous post too tine thi inside of several patera. It works extremely well, and you can really get a thick layer of tin on it. I have tinned several other object with great success, including the "$15 internet pugio", which is the only one I seem to be able to get my hands on at the moment. After removing all the surface crap, it came out beatifully, and looks a little less cheesy.<br>
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The plating manual does describe the method of melting in the tin and wiping it around as the predisessor to electroplating, so that is clearly how the Romans did it. I bet they dunked things like belt plates in a pot of molten tin. If you are a purist, and can get lead free sodler made of tin, I'd guess that's the ticket. Personally, I enjoy the electroplating process, know the end result is food safe, and it comes out lookin GREAT! I'll be adding some pics to my website soon.<br>
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Again it's: www.caswellplating.com/ki..._plate.htm<br>
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Vale, Quintus Florentius<br>
www.florentius.com <p></p><i></i>
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Off topic here I know, but do you have a picture of the "$15 internet pugio". It sounds a little dubious and I have to wonder why it would require tinning. Please put my pugiophilic mind to rest.<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i></i>
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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Ave Crispus,<br>
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I like "dubious"...<br>
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I haven't photo'd it yet, but here's a link-<br>
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www.kultofathena.com/prod...o%20Dagger<br>
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and another:<br>
www.fortecombat.com/PAGES...pugfl.html<br>
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and another:<br>
www.battleorders.co.uk/ac...rs_57.html (scroll down to "brutus or roman brutus dagger)<br>
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It also shows up on e-bay with regularity. The sad thing is, it's not too bad a design, looks a bit like the Velsen dagger, and is very similar to one illustrated repeatedly in Connolly's "The Legionair". It's just the scultpting is so machine perfect, both front and back of the sheath are molded in pot metal, the blade is stainless and very machined, the handle is cast on, the sheath is held together by four screws in the back of the hanging loop loops, the hanging loops ar pot metal D rings which only go inside a bit, and can bend, and there is a lovely plastic insert inside to hold the blade. I will post a picture of the finished version of my upgrade. I am waiting for deepeeka to crank a few out, so I can do better. sorry-blah blahblah blah blah<br>
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I really want a cool one with the framed leather sheath...<br>
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Valete, Quintus Florentius<br>
LEGVIVICPF<br>
www.florentius.com <p></p><i></i>
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so.... where are you located and how much do you charge for "tinning" a patera? (not kidding!) <p></p><i></i>
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
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Hmmm, I agree that the dagger looks nice (I often admire its decoration in museum shops) but unfortunately it is not accurate. Although the decoration is inspired by actual Roman pieces the forms of both the sheath and the dagger are unlike those surviving from antiqity. As far as we know, sheaths did not feature large raised areas and were not made entirly of metal (usually being based around a wooden core). Generally the surfaces were fairly even with the decoration being inscribed and then inlaid in enamel, silver or copper alloy. Similarly, it looks as if handles were made plain and then (sometimes) inscribed and inlaid. The Dipeeka dagger with the embossed sheath on the battle orders site is probably OK as, despite not being made using the same method as the sheath from Leuwen it is inspired by, it does not look too radically different to the original. The dagger handle would need to be modified slightly as I am unaware of any evidence for the flap of metal which is folded around each end of the guard and riveted down. It would be best to remove the rivets, cut away the inaccurate 'flaps', (leaving the ends of the guard exposed) and then replace the rivets again. I would avoid the dagger with the sheath with applied brass plates. The sheath is a misinterpretation of a silver inlaid sheath from Kempton - as far as we know, the Romans did not rivet copper alloy plates like this to dagger sheaths. As I understand it Michael Simpkins misinterpreted a line drawing of the sheath and made a 'reproduction' based on this misinterpretation which was then featured in Dan Peterson's book 'The Roman Legions Recreated in Colour Photographs'. This photoraph was then rather badly copied by Dipeeka and has been sold (probably by the thousands) to unsuspecting customers ever since .<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=crispvs>Crispvs</A> at: 7/1/04 4:10 am<br></i>
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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