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Ten great generals
#1
I am trying to make a list of ten ancient generals from Antiquity who might be labelled truly great. The idea is to write ten biographies and cover all of ancient history. There are two "rules":

  1. The general must be a worthy subject of a biography. Of course the Aetolian campaign of Philodemus of Elis was the most brilliant ever conducted in human history, but since we know so little about it, we cannot write a biography
  2. A list must not have only Roman or Greek commanders. We need an overview.

My own list
  1. Ramesses II (only Bronze Age general about whom we really know something)
  2. Šalmaneser III (example of the unification of the ancient world)
  3. Darius the Great (nineteen battles in one year)
  4. Themistocles (no argument necessary, I guess)
  5. Philip of Macedon (again, no argument necessary)
  6. Darius III (just to have at least one surprise in my list, of course)
  7. Hannibal (goes without saying)
  8. Caesar (he continues to amaze me)
  9. Marcus Aurelius (the Danube wars were really something)
  10. Heraclius (fitting epilogue)

What do you think? Judah the Maccabee? Belisarius? Scipio?
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#2
Interesting list! Phillip rather than Alexander? I'm not that up on the period, but it looks like a controversial choice... :errr:

Marcus Aurelius may have been a great emperor, but I wouldn't call him a great general. He seems to have had a lot of able subordinates, but I don't know of any evidence that he exercised direct battlefield command himself.

As an alternative, I'd probably suggest Constantine. He was a true general, leading from the front, he conquered the entire Roman world from west to east, reconquered most of Dacia, reorganised the army and died on his way to a major campaign against Persia. Plus there's enough known about him for a decent biographical treatment.
Nathan Ross
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#3
Big Gap between Marcus Aurelius and Heraclius. Several could go in there, including Aurelian, Constantine, Julian, Theodosius, Aetius, Belisarius, Narses, and that doesn't even count the legendary Barbarians like Alaric, Gaiseric, and Attila.

Personally, I'd avoid Aetius and Constantine, as Ian Hughes just wrote a Biography on Aetius and Constantine has been overdone. I'd like to see one there hasn't been a biography on.
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#4
Quote:I am trying to make a list of ten ancient generals from Antiquity who might be labelled truly great. The idea is to write ten biographies and cover all of ancient history. There are two "rules":

  1. The general must be a worthy subject of a biography. Of course the Aetolian campaign of Philodemus of Elis was the most brilliant ever conducted in human history, but since we know so little about it, we cannot write a biography
  2. A list must not have only Roman or Greek commanders. We need an overview.

I attempted to keep your list in my quote under the spoiler tag yet it refused to remain so I had to cut it. Damn.

Ok it's really not a bad list, I wonder if we know so little of Sargon of Akkad to justify cutting him, I suspect so and that he's little less shadowy than various Hittite figures. Such a shame, but then we're after history not myth I suppose. One could happily suggest that Ashoka (or one of the other Mauryan's?) be added since despite being important they're little known outside of academia.

I'm going over your list, the first three I wholeheartedly agree with and I'm excited to see Philip, bone weary of Hannibal and Caesar but then...I recently read through Caesar and I'm well disposed to him since he has a wonderful prose style. Silly reason, I know...I'd personally be really interested in M. Aurelius.

The more I think on it, the more I realise what a winner M. Aurelius is. The campaigns were important and we happen to have a good amount of material on him, if you're doing a sort of...thematic history for lack of a better term then he's very much metonymic for that stage of the Empire at large.

I'm sorry I can't be more constructive, its a tight list and I'm digging down to argue with it bar 7 and 8. I'd read it.
Jass
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#5
Marcus Antonius......I say no more.
Kevin
Kevin
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#6
Quote:Constantine has been overdone. I'd like to see one there hasn't been a biography on.

Well, that's introducing a whole new criterion... if they have to be unjustly ignored as well... :dizzy:


Quote:what a winner M. Aurelius is... he's very much metonymic for that stage of the Empire at large.

He's surely a fascinating figure, but see my point above - was he a 'general' in the sense that many of others were? In fact the period of his reign was arguably one of the most important in the later development of the Roman army, but if this is a study of particularly able bellicose individuals, rather than of the development of military systems more generally, then I'm still not convinced that Marcus would make it.

What about Shapur I, by the way? Fairly colossal in the Sassanian period, literally colossal in the Naqsh-e Rustam relief!
Nathan Ross
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#7
Shapur could be one, who was the other big persian, Khosaru or something?
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#8
Thanks for the first responses. Feel free to add more names!
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#9
Hmm.... I also think Jona that maybe you should expand on the criteria. You obviously do not only look at the issue as a simple "who was better?" list and so, I reckon, strategical and tactical excellence may be less important than others?

Names I didn't see in the previous posts, that merit consideration under any criteria would also be :

Pyrrhus, Alcibiades, Viriathus

other notable characters could be :

Agathocles of Syracuse, Agesilaos, Sertorius, Sulla, Cyrus the Great, Sesostris.
Macedon
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George C. K.
῾Ηρακλῆος γὰρ ἀνικήτου γένος ἐστέ
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#10
What -- no Scipio Africanus? :?

Even Hannibal thought Scipio the greatest general of all time.

Of all the stories told about Scipio Africanus, the one I like most is the one about the time Scipio and Hannibal meet in Syria many years after Zama.

Africanus asked who, in Hannibal's opinion, was the greatest general of all time. Hannibal replied, "Alexander ... because with a small force he routed armies of countless numbers, and because he traversed the remotest lands"

Asked whom he placed second, Hannibal said, "Pyrrhus. He was the first to teach the art of laying out a camp. Besides that, no one has ever shown nicer judgement in choosing his ground, or in disposing his forces. He also had the art of winning men to his side."

When Africanus followed up by asking whom he ranked third, Hannibal unhesitatingly chose himself. Scipio burst out laughing at this and said, "What would you be saying if you had defeated me?"

"In that case," replied Hannibal, "I should certainly put myself before Alexander and before Pyrrhus -- in fact before all other generals!"

This reply, with its elaborate Punic subtlety, affected Scipio deeply, because Hannibal had set him apart from the general run of commanders, as one whose worth was beyond calculation.

(Adrian Goldsworthy, In The Name Of Rome, c2003, page 69)

:wink:

Narukami
David Reinke
Burbank CA
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#11
I agree Marcus Aurelius is not very warlike, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good general. A good general commands men, and that is what Marcus did in person during the northern wars.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#12
If this was a list for the top 10 politicians in the ancient world then Marcus Aurelius would be one of the top 3 alongside Philip II & Thermistocles on my list, his handling of The Marcomannic wars(War of Many Nations) showed although he did have setbacks & defeats, the 2 stages of this war included up to 17 nations or tribes & Marcus Aurelius played his political cards perfectly playing off tribe against tribe along with handling problems on the domestic front with the death of his co-emperor as well as money problems & dealing with the plague outbreak through the empire. As the previous sender said he lived on the frontline & I am sure that he had the final say when it came to the appointment of his generals. But I don't class him as a battlefield commander.
If I could throw one underrated Roman general who never reached the heights of others on list it would be Publius Ventidius Bassus, who rose under Caesar in Gallic Wars & was sent east by Mark Anthony in response to a Parthian invasion in 40BC, who defeated the Parthians & Roman rebels under Quintus Labienus In a series of battles in 39-38 BC & the massive effect that these victories must have had back home at Rome with the avenging of the battle of Carrhae & the defeat of the “dreaded" Parthians. Unfortunately he died not long after he celebrated his triumph & how he must have felt the irony of celebrating a triumph because when he was a boy, he & his mother were led in chains as prisoners of war from Asculum after the Social War (90-88 BC) in the triumph of Pompey Strabo.
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Michael Kerr
Michael Kerr
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
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#13
Hmm...only four "slots" to cover six centuries.

Scipio Africanus...replace Hannibal. As Narukami says, even Hannibal rated him.

Marcus Antonius another possible but perhaps replace him with one of the most overlooked generals for some strange reason, Marcus Aggripa. Where would Octavian have been without him?

(And agree with Philip over Alexander)

Alcibiades? Land and sea...a slouch with neither!

Edit: Vespasian? Or would you credit Titus instead?
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#14
Thanks for the input everyone.

Anyone else?
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#15
We would be remiss to not mention Belisarius. He was to Justinian what Agrippa was to Octavian.
Take what you want, and pay for it

-Spanish proverb
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