For a diorama showing legionaries (2 cohorts) marching with fast pace and in bad weather, i.e. legionaries wearing paenulas, I have the following questions: (1) Centurios: Would centurions march with their centuries? Would they possibly ride on horse? (2) Siginfier: Would Signifier march with their centuries? I have read in many sources, that they would march together with other siginfier leading the whole marching order and probably just following the respective tribune. More importantly: Would they, in fast marching order and bad weather, carry the standards and would these standards be covered (to protect from bad weather) or not.
For an impression of the figures for the diorama, please see the pictures. Thank you for any help you can provide
probably an centurio will always march (not ride) with his men
for signifers I think that the answer is depends
if they are expecting fithing on the way that involved any fighting signa are important for the century and the orders they were becoming so they will march with them.
If no attacks expected aka not enemy land i would think they might march toghether
I could not find any source desribing the distance between marching soldiers. Using the reference of 19th century manuals, the distance between marching soldiers is about 0.8 meter (for cavalry 2.7m). The soldiers in the picture are put in a wider distance for a simple reason: They are put as a model study for the soldiers themselves to identify what poses are missing. I used a wider distance for a very simple reason: This way, I can easily change figures and play around until I have a good combination. They will then put in a final diorama (including landscape and so on) with less distance to each other. I will use about 1 meter as a distance - lacking any source that tells me something different.
Polybius says in battle each soldier had about 9 sq. ft. of frontage (3x3), Vegetius mentions 27 sq. ft. (3x9 with 3 being in front and 9 being alongside). Might have been 3x6 for Vegetius.
I found some sources for marching order, but they leave me confused.
On one hand, Polybios writes how important it is that the march columnes can quickly turn into battle order in times of danger. He recommends three marching columns that could easily turn into a triplex acies battle order (simply by turning left or right). This clearly refers to the Republican army, but there is reference of other writers of the imperial army that recommend a similar close marching order that can turn into battle order by simply turning left or right. With this logic, the standards should march close to the centuries, probably leading each centuries, as in battle each century would be close to its standard.
On the other hand, Flavius Josephus (the only reference I found that explicitly describes the position of the standards within the marching order) describes at two occasions the following:
III.6.2. - Vespasian entering Galilee (enemy territory) AD 67 - see point 10. in my list below !!
1. Light armed auxiliaries and archers, in order to discover ambushes
2. Heavy armed Roman infantry and cavarly
3. Ten men of each century for layout of camp
4. Engeneers to clear obstacles
5. Baggage of General
6. Vespasian himself with guards, of course
7. Legionary cavalry
8. Mules with siege engines
9. Officers (Josehphus lists explicitlyLegats, Prefects, Tribunes, but NOT centurions)
10. !!!! Signa (Standards) and in their middle the eagle that would lead each legion
11. "The signs folled the Trumpeters, and only then followed
12. the main corps of the army in rows of six, accompanied by a (!!!) centurion, who commonly took care of the order.
13. Servants and baggage
14. Auxiliary troops
15 Rearguard
There is another reference in Josephus, V.2.1. Titus entering enemy territory.
The marching order is similar to the order above. Explicitly, the officers ("Tribunes and commanders of cohorts"), then trumpeters, then standards with eagle in the middle, then legions (marching in rows of six again). This time no reference of centurions whatsoever.
Without any further source, I would interprete the above as follows: The standards and eagle of each legion would be carried in front of the legion as one pack, and NOT each standard close to each century. And this order would be kept despite the march would be in enemy territory and the order should be easily be transformed into a battle order. Despite this being counter-intuitive, this is what the sources say (at least the sources I am aware of).
Arrian (Acies contra Alanos, s.1) has the legion march 4 abreast. His centurions seem to be posted as follows: the 5 centurions of the first cohort with the chiliarchoi, the rest on the side of the marching column with picked troops, overseeing the march, although, regarding the 12th legion he also mentions that the tribuni and the centurions were with the standard of the legion. As you have also pinpointed, Josephus has the legion march 6 abreast and its standards surround the eagle, separately from the cohorts (DBJ 3.115 - the whole march account). The 6 abreast info he again gives in his account regarding Titus (DBJ 5.47)
In the account of Vespasian's marching order, Josephus writes that with the chiliarchoi (tribuni) and the eparchoi of the speirae marched also the hegemones (officers). Although he does not call them hekatontarchoi (centurions), it would be highly improbable to not mean them, taking into accout that there were no intermiediate ranks between them and the tribuni - eparchoi. Unfortunately, in the account regarding Titus, there is no mention to other officers apart from the tribuni (and the eparchoi).
Macedon MODERATOR Forum rules
George C. K.
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Macedon, thank you for shedding tremendous light on Josephus' description. I quoted a German translation which did exclude Centurions, but the word "officers" might well include them.
So, to summarize what I have learned so far and what is proven by sources...
1. Standards marched in a pack, eagle in the middle, leading each legion. Imagine: That is 60 Standards.
2. Trumpeters either leading or follow ing the standards, again 60 in one pack.
All this is surprising to me, because in case of an attack, centuries - each marching in formation, 4- or 6-abreast, would be separated from their standards. An obviousely, a concentrated attack on a pack of 60 standards plus 1 eagle would make a nice booty.
3. Some higher ranked centurions would march - or rather ride?? - with the tribunes, whereas lower ranked centurions would look after the marching columns of the legions rsp centuries.
Questions remaining:
A. Would centurions really ride on horses? If not all af them, then at last the ones who are with the tribunes?
B. How would the signifiers march (in the setting of my diorama, ie bad weather and fast march) Would they wear paenulas? Would they cover their standards to protect from bad weather?
For my part I'd certainly suggest a 6-wide 'normal' formation; which would fit in with both Josephus' actual description and is suggested by both Polybius & Vegetius - and is effectively marching in 'contubernia' ranks (where 2 men are missing from each 'section' (cf Josephus) - 1 who is guarding the 'General' & Officers and the other who is in the Advance Guard to mark out the Camp - both hasta & parma armed - amounting to 640 men each.
Arrian's formation is particular and would normally otherwise serve to lengthen the column a great deal. It probably was set so as to enable a rapid transition to a long fighting line.
I don't believe there would be more than 1 cornicen per cohort, so a maximum of 10. I have suggested 20 for a Polybian-era legion, but that is for a particular time. I do not think there is any need for more and that each century doesn't have one. 59(if Imperial)-60 standards + the aquilifer + imagifer (if Imperial) (+ 10 cohort standards? :unsure: )
Would any of the centurions have horses? Josephus certainly says that some were with the troops.
One reason, by the way, to have all the standards together (with most of the officers) is to allow rapid deployment. If an enemy is sighted and there is a need for speed - then the senior centurions and the standards rush to positions and the men then rapidly follow to where they need to be. Whilst apparently vulnerable, this shouldn't be an issue for a 'prepared' army that has adequate scouts out.
One should not assume anything about a "normal" marching formation for the Romans - whether six abreast or four abreast. or whatever. Circumstances likely dictated the width of the marching column. Josephus' description, particularly with the massed standards, probably did not anticipate fighting while on the move. Arrian was describing a march with the anticipation of a battle, and the width of his column may well have been dictated by the tactical plan for the battle. And, whether the centurions rode or marched on foot should not be considered an absolute. It probably varied depending on circumstances, or what the commander of the army considered appropriate. Take a look at an emperor like Hadrian who made a point at times of marching on his own two feet, which likely meant that the senior officers and the centurions did as well, at least as long as he was doing so. The Roman army ran a lot more on the personality of the commander and/or the temperament of the troops.
Quinton Johansen
Marcus Quintius Clavus, Optio Secundae Pili Prioris Legionis III Cyrenaicae
Quinton is of course right in that circumstances would dictate different march tactics. We even have accounts of Romans of the broad era we discuss marching in plaesion (hollow square) or even in battle formation when relatively near the enemy. However, there was what we could call a "standard" that, in my opinion closely resembles what Josephus and Arrian describe. By the way, we also have some interesting pictorial evidence you should look up. Check out Trajan's column here to see a real live image of what we discuss (all the standards together, before them the buccinatores.. ). I am sure that there are more like it out there but unfortunately, I cannot remember at the moment where I saw them, others may be more helpful here.
Macedon MODERATOR Forum rules
George C. K.
῾Ηρακλῆος γὰρ ἀνικήτου γένος ἐστέ
