Did a much earlier Manual like thStrategikon exist

[Palmerius2002]

Good Morning Graham;

Thank you for the lead on the information.
Hoping to learn what I can to be more competent in the hobby.

Geoffrey Ives

[Palmerius2002]

Robert Vermaat;

Thank you for the clarification and context.

Geoffrey Ives

[Robert Vermaat]

When you say, "original commands", do you mean commands not found in other sources, or are you saying that Mauritius authored them?

original as in, we do not have manuals in which such orders were penned down. Altough the Strategikon is far more than a set of commands, we are lucky that Maurikios/Maurice used them in the text. Even more so, although the text is in Greek, the orders are still given in Latin, thereby showing that the 'heeressprache' was still Latin.

[Mark Graef]

The Strategikon came latter 6th century? but what did 1st Century through the 5th Century Roman Military Leaders have for a military Manual? Where can I get a copy to read?

Was it all wrote memorization for Roman leaders or did they go by a manual for training and strategy?

From the later Republic on there were military treatises available to the largely self-taught officers appointed from the Roman senatorial class. These were not official manuals but books written by Greek and Roman military commanders, philosophers, or intellectuals. Pyrrhus of Epirus wrote a treatise on warfare that was still considered of value 200 later (Cicero, Fam. 9.25 ). Cato the Elder wrote De Rei Militari, of which only a few fragments survive, although some of its content was likely subsumed by Vegetius. Polybius wrote a Notes on Tactics (9.20) which does not survive itself, but many tactical details appear in his History (a good example would be the description of Scipio's tactics in the battle of Ilipa, 11.22 & 23)

The Stoic philosopher and polymath writer Poseidonius wrote an Art of War which likely drew on material from Polybius and Scipio Aemilianus, as well as his own observations of military practices circa 115 BC. (Poseidonius was a disciple of Panataeus, the philosopher that accompanied Aemilanus. Poseidonius also wrote a continuation of Polybius' history). The Art of War might have been widely read in the late 2nd cent. – 1st cent. BC, as Posedonius was highly regarded by the Roman elite of his day, and personally knew many important figures, including Gaius Marius, Cicero, and Pompey. Poseidonius was also a personal friend of Publius Rutilius Rufus, the Roman consul who reformed army training in 105 BC. Unfortunately, Poseidonius' Art of War itself does not survive, but its material on tactical theory was almost certainly excerpted by Asclepiodotus and Aelian, whose tactical treatises survive largely intact.

An English translation of Aelian's Tactics (the first since 1814) along with the corresponding Greek text has recently been published and is available from Amazon.com in Kindle e-book or print format. (Christopher Matthew, The Tactics of Aelian, Pen & Sword Books).

Onasander's The General is another military treatise which survives intact. This work was dedicated to Quintus Veranius, who became the Roman governor of Britain in AD 57. This work is not the Roman Imperial Army Officers' Handbook that we would like to have, but it may have been the next closest thing to it at the time. Onasander contains the ideals and methods which a good general should know, including leadership qualities, creating a staff, use of intelligence, making camps, maintaining troop morale, making proper dispositions of forces, and tactical deployment. Other newly appointed provincial governors or legates surely read Onasander before or during their postings, if they cared to; how much of it was followed or put into practice would have been at their discretion.

Both Asclepiodotus and Onasander are bound together in a Loeb edition, with side-by-side Greek and English texts, and is available through Amazon.

Dr. Philip Rance suspects that the Strategikon of Maurice was compiled in part from earlier Latin documents (especially the sections on infantry) which were translated into Greek. These documents may have been "official ordinances, regulations, and commands" or short unofficial monographs that were in a format that was not likely to survive into modernity. Since certain aspects of the Stategikon resemble material in Onasander, Asclepiodotus, and Aelian, these may have been some of the ancient sources that the compiler of the Stratekigon refers to. Although the Stratekigon was written in the 6th cent. it is not irrelevant to the earlier Roman periods.

Unfortunately, Rance's edition of the Stratekigon, which is supposed to contain evidence and explanations of the above, has been put on hold indefinitely. In the meantime, the only English translation available is that of George Dennis: Maurice's Strategikon (1984, reprinted 2001), which is available from several online sources.

[Robert Vermaat]

I disagree that there were no similar manuals before.

Who claimed that there were no similar manuals before? I think we all agree that earlier works may have existed, we just don't have any of these.

[M. Caecilius]

I disagree that there were no similar manuals before.

Who claimed that there were no similar manuals before? I think we all agree that earlier works may have existed, we just don't have any of these.

The first answer to the topic asking about manuals prior to the Strategikon was that "they didn't have one".

We don't have them, of course, and can only offer a suggestions based on fragments and using the arcane methods of Quellenforschung to figure out what they actually were.

[Sean Manning]

I see no evidence of Vegetius in later Greek treatises, he was perhaps only rediscovered after the MIddle Ages.

Robert, Vegetius was continually copied, excerpted, expanded, and translated in the Latin world from Charlemagne's day to the present. Hundreds of manuscripts survive and many famous soldiers found his book useful. Rabanus Maurus' treatise de procinctu Romanae militiae, a summary of Vegetius 1 made for Charlemagne's grandson, is available for public download in the Zeitschrift für deutsches Althertum edition of 1872.

I suspect that he is not attested in the eastern empire because when he wrote, the Greek world and the Latin world were drifting apart culturally.

[M. Demetrius]

I have regularly quipped that the Drill Manual from older time periods was put on wax tablets and sent to Herculaneum in 78 for safekeeping. But in Aug of 79....

[Palmerius2002]

Wow I will have to find these in print if I can and read more about it.

Geoffrey Ives

[M. Caecilius]

I have regularly quipped that the Drill Manual from older time periods was put on wax tablets and sent to Herculaneum in 78 for safekeeping. But in Aug of 79....

Lol. Maybe Pliny the Elder had borrowed them to write another encyclopedia (the Military History, from the bestselling author of the Natural History!) and decided to take them with him as he went off to investigate the spectacle Vesuvius was offering.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I have regularly quipped that the Drill Manual from older time periods was put on wax tablets and sent to Herculaneum in 78 for safekeeping. But in Aug of 79....

"Ba dum tsshhh."

[ValentinianVictrix]

There is always a slim chance that at least parts of a military manual may be discovered in one of those rubbbish mounds outside Antioch and other simiar cities. Some previously 'lost' works and erotic poetry have turned up at these mounds so who knows what else is there?

[Flavivs Aetivs]

erotic poetry

Sounds like something soldiers would read. :dizzy:

[Mark Graef]

The Strategikon came latter 6th century? but what did 1st Century through the 5th Century Roman Military Leaders
have for a military Manual? Where can I get a copy to read? Was it all rote memorization for Roman leaders or did they go by a manual for training and strategy?

There is an important difference between the Strategikon and earlier military texts which is crucial for understanding Roman strategy and tactics in the late Republic – early Imperial period.

The Strategikon has been called the first modern military manual, i.e. a practical treatise published by a government for the purpose of instructing its military personnel. As far as we know there was not an earlier official compendium of practical, explanatory texts under one title on every subject a general should be aware (and hence junior officers) including: discipline and morale, cavalry formations and tactics, laying ambushes, placement of baggage trains, intelligence and spies, conducting sieges, ethnographic information, laying out camps, and infantry tactics.

The military treatises recommended earlier in this thread (Onasander's Strategikos, Frontinus' Stratagamata, Polyaneus, the Taktika of Asclepiodotus, Aelian, and Arrian, and Arrian's Ectaxis contra Alanos) together between them cover many of the subjects listed above, some in greater technical detail, but none of these are really manuals. A good explanation of how these works could have been used as practical handbooks can be found in the paper "Teach Yourself How to Be a General" by Brian Campbell (The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 77, 1987, pp. 13-29). This is available through jstor.org, although if you don't have an academic account with them you can go to a university library to print off a copy. There was also an excellent series of feature articles under the heading "Be a General" by Murray Dahm that appeared in the first three volumes of Ancient Warfare magazine which dealt with the practical use of the aforementioned works.

To understand ancient military practice, Geoffrey, I think Polybius' three methods are as valid for us today as they were when they were written:

"There are three methods followed by those who wish to arrive at an intelligent knowledge of tactics. The first is by the study of history, the second by the use of scientific treatises composed by specialists, the third by actual experience on the field."

(11.8)

Fortunately we can read some of the very same historical accounts and treatises that Roman military leaders did in the 1st and 2nd centuries, and teach ourselves the same way. For actual experience, we can't recreate real warfare, but it is possible to experience period tactics and training in a field environment through certain reenactment organizations — which I myself have found very useful to better understand ancient military texts, as well as providing ideas for further research.