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06-18-2004, 02:16 AM

Hi everyone, 
 
I would like to make myself a leather manica segmentata. Is the pattern on the Legio XX web site any good to be made out of leather ? 
 
And what about the interior straping, I made a test with stiff leather and nothing moves. I came to the conclusion that I need something very flexible as interior strapping, is that correct ? 
 
Please note that this item won't be use for renacting, so I don't care about the material used inside. 
 
Any advice or hint is very welcome ! 
 
Thank you for your time, 
 
Colin aka Quintus Rufus Germanicus

mcbishop · 06-18-2004, 08:19 AM

I would like to make myself a leather manica segmentata. 
 
Umm, why? There is no evidence that armguards were ever made out of leather. Copper alloy, yes; ferrous plate, yes. Leather, no. They certainly might have been, but we are entering 'what if' territory here which runs the risk of quickly evolving into a factoid ;-) In fact, leather would generate far too much friction for the sort of sliding deflection upon which an armguard depends. 
 
Please note that this item won't be use for renacting 
 
My mind is at full boggle... 
 
Mike Bishop

Gashford · 06-18-2004, 12:23 PM

Mike 
 
I am very interested in the manica, from a gladiatorial point of view. My first manica built was leather, due to it being the only resource I had at the time and it being easier to work than metal when learning. 
 
The leather has stood up very well to use, although I have not tried any true cutting tests it has managed to survive well enough. 
 
Do you think, and I mean think due to the lack of evidence, that leather good might have been used in this manner for disposable pieces? 
 
This is something I wonder about a lot due to the frequency manica are depicted, on gladiators, but the lack of actual gladiatorial manica found ... ie none as far as I know. It got me wondering about the either reuse of the flat plate metal of manica after it finished its time in teh arena or the possibility that leather may have been used .. there is a distinct lack of leather good coming from ludus to make me suspect this? 
 
All the best Graham Ashford
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Hibernicus · 06-18-2004, 03:23 PM

I've seen both leather and metal manica in use during SCA combat. I use brass.. .035. Some of the guys use mild steel 18g and 20g. The metal is far superior to those made of leather. 
 
The leather deforms with each blow.. against blunt "practice weapons" .. the leather is also not as articualted as the metal.. some of that may be construction methods however leather users tend to use very thick leather and that thickness makes the manica less articulated... and sometimes heavier than the steel! 
 
Hibernicus

mcbishop · 06-18-2004, 05:13 PM

Do you think, and I mean think due to the lack of evidence, that leather good might have been used in this manner for disposable pieces? 
 
Why bother? You have to think in terms of the time and resources involved in making a leather one as good as a metal one. We know they had metal armguards (which took a considerable bashing, to judge from the archaeological evidence) and it would seem pointless putting all the effort into making a leather defence that did the job as well as a metal one. That does not rule out the possibility that they did... just that we do not have the evidence and it does not seem very likely. 
 
It got me wondering about the either reuse of the flat plate metal of manica after it finished its time in teh arena or the possibility that leather may have been used .. there is a distinct lack of leather good coming from ludus to make me suspect this? 
 
If you exclude Pompeii, think how much gladiatorial kit has survived, and metal armguard plates are indeed easily reused. Still, you never know what might turn up in years to come. 
 
Mike Bishop

Hibernicus · 06-18-2004, 06:14 PM

"If you exclude Pompeii, think how much gladiatorial kit has survived, and metal armguard plates are indeed easily reused. Still, you never know what might turn up in years to come." 
 
Yeah.. sometime about 4075 they'll did up Old Southern California after it re-emerges from the Pacific and find evidence of leather Roman manica. 
 
Hibernicus

06-22-2004, 02:13 PM

Hi, 
 
Ok, let me simply ask this. If I make a leather manica out of the pattern on the legio XX's website, will it work ? 
 
Should I modify the pattern because it is leather ? Or maybe I should use a complete different pattern.. 
 
Once again, this is not for reenacting and won't be used against real weapons. 
 
Thanks for your time and support. 
 
Colin aka Quintus Rufus Germanicus Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=apophisamenothep>Apophis Amenothep</A> at: 6/22/04 4:14 pm

Gashford · 06-22-2004, 04:04 PM

Apophis 
 
I built a manica along very similar lines to the one in question. Each of the strips was the same size, except the top (biggest) one. This one I made of a few thinner strips, the same size as the others throughout the manica. 
 
To get an accurate, made to fit, manica. You can take the measurements of your arm from the point where the bottom of the deltoid enters your arm down to about an inch higher than your wrist. 
 
But if you stick with it you should get something that might fit, most Roman finds tell to be a little too small for us these days. 
 
I have built a few leather and metal manica, o if I can help anymore ask away. 
 
All the best Graham Ashford
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06-23-2004, 09:55 PM

Hi ! 
 
I made one arm today ! 
 
Everything works great !!! I'll try to get pictures and show what it looks like. 
 
The only thing I've change on the pattern is 3 interior leather strap instead of 4. 
 
Thanks for the help ! 
 
Colin

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