I finally built a pit fire and fired my front and rear metal blanks for my upcoming musculata build and they are now curved. Now is the time for outside input. I have ideas, mostly from a few dig finds I have seen online and of course my own artistic ability, but want those of you who have knowledge of originals and also have artistic ability to give me ideas to accomplish a cuirass that I will not only be proud (and able to wear), but at least present some degree of authenticity, eye appeal and practicality.
My main needs are the ways to shape the joining points on top and put it together over the shoulders and sides. I also wanted to make shoulder guards, but somethings I've read seem to point to them being more Greek than Roman, but still leaning toward them. I am debating whether to paint the finished product or cover it in smooth single piece leather. Also whether or not to line it with leather with padding.
It is going to be short for horse and made out of modern carbon sheet steel that is fairly thick, but not too heavy.
I do plan on beating out the muscle conformations, but not get crazy with them. I don't plan on much adornment, maybe a lion's head in the middle of the pecs, but that may be attached rather than peened in.
Plenty of time at this time, but I need your input now to start my planning. When I get on a roll, I don't stop until I reach a set point. Thanks in advance for any help you are willing to give...as long as it is friendly advise!
I would post progress pictures when I reach that point.
Manius Acilius Italicus
Bob Cherry
Ave, Bob,
The men to talk to are RAT Board members, Brian Stobbs and Matt Lukes. They both make, and/or have made metal musculatas. Quite Frankly,
we need more armorers who do quality, reasonably priced musculatas. Please post pictures as you get it done. If you contact them, please tell them that I referred you. (They're Friends).
Your Friend,
Vitruvius.......aka Larry Mager
Robert.
Here is a picture of one that I made many years ago for the late Doug Arnold of the Secunda Augusta Legion UK, it has the shoulder doublings integral with the backplate.
This one is as you have mentioned a short type where one can sit a horse for most of the ones we see are in fact what I would call the poser type as with Emperors that have the extension over the abdomen and therefore difficult to even sit down.
Thanks for the input Larry. I will try to communicate with those two and see if they can give me some ideas. I would be happy to do progressive photos as I work on it, but that will probably be a drawn out process. First I want to be happy with a design, then make a pattern, cut out the metal and when I'm happy with the fit, start pounding metal. Keep in touch.
Manius Acilius Italicus
Bob Cherry
Hey Brian. I remember seeing this curiass you made when I first laid out my plans for my kit. I sort of like the idea of having the connection with the back plate and connecting them when ready to wear. However what I had in mind is more coverage for the shoulder with several plates or leather segments as I have seen in several reproductions. I do want that historical input to avoid departing totally from what "may" be close to an accurate reproduction. I don't like the nipple rings, so would have to figure a different way of securing it.
As a side note, my body building is coming along well and hopefully I will be able to fill this thing with my own physique instead of just padding in the near future.
Thanks for your input and I am definitely going to go with short as opposed to posing.
Ave Bob,
Just a friendly expression of concern, If you are thinking, as I did, about the photo of the trophy being held that seems to show a musculata withsegmentata shoulder pieces, Look @ it more carefully. The Costumer for "Gladiator" used that for Mr. Crowes' Germania sequence.
As Brian told me, look closely at it....It really shows Epomides that have a raised line down the middle of them. Sadly, to the best of My and anyone's knowledge, there were never any musculatas with segmentata shoulder pieces. Believe me Bob, I wish there were. What I am doing is buying a cheap Musculata and putting segmentata shoulder pieces on it for some Larping and saving money to have a quality Musculata made.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I remain ,
Your Friend,
Vitruvius.....aka Larry Mager
Ave, "Philius"
I don't know if it would help Bob out any, but is there anyway you could repost that Shot of the late Doug Arnold sitting on the horse in armour?
Regards,
Viruvius....aka Larry Mager
Larry.
Here is that picture you refer to of the late Doug' Arnold on horse back wearing his short cuirass, this was done when they did filming of the Varas battle and Doug' took the part of Varas.
It does show just how the shorter cuirass was made for this purpose and I'm sure most officers in the field would have worn this instead of the poser style with the abdoman covered that would have prevented them from doing just this.
Robert.
Here is a rough drawing that shows the basic shape you have to cut your cuirass plates to and as you can see the shoulder shapes go off at an angle, the reason for this is that the human shoulder is not horizontal but has a slope to it. Therefore when the shoulder areas come over they give this gentle slope to the shoulders of the cuirass, with the solid lines the type of fixing would be similar to the Prima Porta type of shoulder hinges, the dotted lines of course show where the back plate can be made with longer shoulder doublings.
The angle of these shoulder pieces is where you have to calculate the angle to meet your own shape of shoulders, the shorter version just butts together with simple hinges riveted to the backplate, however doing the longer shoulder pieces these come right on over the frontplate as I did with the picture I show of mine.
Robert.
Here are pictures that show the side hinges to hold the front and back plates together and these are the type I used for the cuirass I've shown, these are put together with pins that are chained to the cuirass however with this kind of fixing one has to have help at times to do up the pins.
Ignore the letters A and B for these were simply drawn to show where alterations had to be made for the fixed rings that held the dagger Doug' Arnold had fitted as seen in the horseback picture.
Here also is another method for fixing the front and back plates together that I later did for Doug' Arnold when he needed to fit the cuirass himself, this was where togues were fitted to the inside of the backplate and these went into very thin brackets fitted on the edge of the frontplate as shown in the side view.
This way all he had to do was put the backplate on first with the shoulder doublings over his shoulders then offer up the frontplate and locate the togues and do up the fastenings at the sides. I did of course make small straps and buckles however simple rings can be used, the advantage of this method is that the two edges of the cuirass are firmly together and do not wander over one another the togues cannot be seen.
Ave, Brian,
Thank You for giving out for Bob's benefit, the diagrams and photo of Doug on horseback....Doug was modest enough not to talk about the movie,
so I didn't know about that. When you get the time, would you please P.M. me with the details of it....it sounds interesting!!!
Btw, does the pattern of the front cuirass plate match the back?
General ? for any and all: Re; Musculata decorations; Does there seem to be a standard set of decorations for one, or were they all really pretty plain in actual life as per Drusus's musculata, or was it up to the individual having the musculata made?
Salve, to Y'All,
Vitruvius....aka Larry Mager
Here is a picture of the cuirass worn by Drusus on a statue in the museum in Cagliari Sardinia it is not known if it is Drusus the elder or the younger, the figure on the left is the one and as can be seen it looks very plain indeed therefore one can consider that this particular short type is one used by an officer in the field.This statue also shows a classical style of helmet that was worn by an officer at the foot of the figure. What is also of great interest is just how the cingalum militair is worn around the midrift on the cuirass for it appears to go around the body not once but twice.
Having email problems, so this may be a repeated message!
Thanks again Brian. One question is on Drusus's curiass it has a fitted bottom, whereas the picture I got of one on horse back has a flared bottom. This would seem to be much more comfortable when on horse back or just sitting down, but would present a problem when attaching the leather to the bottom. It would stick out too far from the body and not make a very good presentation ( to me anyway ).
Have you had this problem and if so, how did you resolve it?
It's too bad that there is not a good side shot of the Drusus statue so as to be able to see the side of the Helm.....Granted the Paludamentum covers the top,but one can extrapolate,based on statues contemporary with it that there was a crest, most probably on a pedestal. I have come to agree with Dan Howard that one cannot totally rely on iconographic evidence. Drusus' statue, being as plain as it is, might well have been taken from life. In another way, I have come to believe that no matter how wealthy various officers were, they would not want to have to be constantly replacing the decorations. I know that I wouldn't
Salve Mi Fraters,
Vitruvius.....aka Larry Mager
