Pila range and how?

[Kurt Scholz]

That all ranks throw two pila at once is a standard academic model that has some plausibility issues as soon as you try it on the green.
You can argue for different modes as well, like combined arms approaches and rotating ranks. Rotating ranks can have front ranks that throw and fight with the gladius afterwards and back ranks waiting with their pila until called up. A modification proposed is passing pila along to a specialized front rank thrower (lack of evidence, we just know specialized slingers among the legions). A combined arms mode can have one swordfighting front rank and a stabbing and throwing pilum rank right behind them. All these ideas have for sure been tried and evaluated during the long history of Roman warfare. Having two heavy javelins was a common practice in ancient Greece and Italy, while carrying about 5 lighter darts (like the plumbata).
Personally, I think the way pilas are thrown can be unorthodox, using the same movement as with a staff sling on occasion, making them "single use staffslings" so to say with much more power, but little aim behind the throw. This would enable a better participation of the back ranks. Neither do we know if all legionaries carried the same arrangements of pila or whether they had mission and position specific types and numbers of pila.

[jkaler48]

Tacitus writing in the late Roman period describes the current Legionary battle load as up to seven missle weapons one of those being a Pilum. He also describe the in the past practice of carrying two pila into battle. He goes on to say the Germans are now carrying two to three into battle.

There are comparatively many references to Pila being laid aside in battle while the standard tactic is to first engage the enemy with pila. Perhaps in some instances the Pila are being put aside because the first volley has been thrown and there is no time to launch a second one.

We may find holding a second pilum in the shield hand awkward and difficult but we do not spend hours every day years on end practicing as the Romans did. We do not have a Centurion standing at the ready to beat us if we injure our fellow soldiers with clumsy pila handling in formation.

Whether pila were resupplied in battle after the initial ammunition load was expended is a matter that cannot be determined with any certainty. It was certainly possible to do so as Romans records on weapons supply and manufacture records indicate the Legion traveled with repair and manufacturing assets, requisitioned more Pila than other weapons, had additional weapons on hand when in the field and lastly had plenty of non Legionary personnel on had who could have delivered Pila to the battle line.

[Macedon]

I think that one of the main problems to be addressed is that if the legionaries had more than one pilum and for some reason they did not throw it, what happened next? They had to draw their swords, they obviously would have no free hand to hold the second pilum. Where would they put it? Laying on the ground? Very improbable... Should they do so, then if the line pushed forward, servants should collect them but if the line retreated as was more than common among Romans? They surely would not want hundreds of perfectly battle-worthy pila just laying there for the enemy to pick up. And if they did not just lay it down, what did they do? Pass it to the rear? This would take a lot of time as all pila should be handed on and on until they were collected by some servant, it would be better to just throw them.... Has anyone reenacted such a mechanism?

[Bryan]

I think that one of the main problems to be addressed is that if the legionaries had more than one pilum and for some reason they did not throw it, what happened next? They had to draw their swords, they obviously would have no free hand to hold the second pilum. Where would they put it? Laying on the ground? Very improbable...

The translations provided above by Mark Graef frequently used the words "laid aside," which could mean the men simply dropped them at their feet or passed them off to someone else. For the former, I don't consider this improbable, as a "useless" weapon is a hindrance and I can't see carrying one around or going through some complicated gesture when simply dropping it works, unless otherwise ordered to by senior officers. Why pila would not be used is a different story. For the latter, the situation would dictate. If time was available and one wanted to hold onto their pila for future use, they could be handed off to a ranker in the back of the formation, calones in the rear, or just planted in the ground in hope that infantry in the second line would pick them up. How many pila could one calo carry?

Should they do so, then if the line pushed forward, servants should collect them but if the line retreated as was more than common among Romans? They surely would not want hundreds of perfectly battle-worthy pila just laying there for the enemy to pick up.

Its about priorities. In addition to the hundreds of dropped pila littering the battleground in front of a repulsed century/maniple/cohort, there would also hundreds of pieces of other weaponry, ie. spent arrows, spears and javelins sticking out of the ground cast by the enemy, Roman shields dropped by the wounded, swords that were dropped and lost, not to mention fallen comrades that mates were unable to be recover. If you were in command, what would be the priority for policing? If you were the enemy commander and just repulsed the Roman line, would you stop to police the battlefield or just continue the attack using initiative and momentum?

[Robert Vermaat]

Tacitus writing in the late Roman period

Slip of the pen? :grin:

[jkaler48]

The late Roman period is more oval shaped than the Imperial Roman period which itself differs from the Republican period being smaller and flater at the top and bottom. :cheer:

[M. Demetrius]

I thought all periods were small and round, and put at the bottom of the line like this: . <--


But what do I know??

[Bryan]

Wow, took me a bit but I finally got that one.

[jkaler48]

One ancient source that supports the soldiers entering battle with more than one Pilum and possible the resupply of Pila during battle may be Caesar writing about the battle of Ilerda "The fight had now lasted five hours without intermission, when our men, oppressed by the multitude of the enemy, and having spent all their darts, attacked the mountain sword in hand, and overthrowing such as opposed them, obliged the rest to betake themselves to flight." Although some of the Pila would have been the enemies that were returned to them five hours is a long time to take to run out of one or two Pila per man.

[sjsobolewski]

From my experience in the field with 2 pilum, I stick one in the ground (butt-down), throw one, then pull the other one out of the ground, throw that one, then quick draw the gladius.

[Dan Howard]

When on the defensive it seems that they sometimes closed ranks and kept the second pilum to use as a thrusting spear.

[FarDarter]

I am curious - is there any mention of legionaries using the Greek-style amentum throwing straps? Napoleon III reports that said straps can potentially quadruple the range of javelins; surely the Romans would not hesitate to utilize something so easy to make and so useful?

[Iagoba]

I'm unable to find the picture, but Via Latina's painting of a late Roman soldier with crested helmet shows him holding two javelins vertically inside the shield, while in the other hand he has a spatha.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I heard that Comitatus' testing shows that clipping javelins and plumbatae onto the back of the shield makes the shield awkard and difficult to use. Furthermore, most Late Roman shields were dished (usually the oval ones were flat though), so you couldn't clip things onto the back anyways.

[Robert Vermaat]

I'm unable to find the picture, but Via Latina's painting of a late Roman soldier with crested helmet shows him holding two javelins vertically inside the shield, while in the other hand he has a spatha.

It's not clear how he holds those two javelins.