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Pila range and how?
#46
Quote:I heard that Comitatus' testing shows that clipping javelins and plumbatae onto the back of the shield makes the shield awkard and difficult to use. Furthermore, most Late Roman shields were dished (usually the oval ones were flat though), so you couldn't clip things onto the back anyways.
The shape of the shield does not matter as long as the object is short enough. For plumbatae there's no problem.
besides, it's not clear how plumbatae 'inside the shield' were used, either everybody had them or they were passed on to the front ranks, to be thrown before battle commenced.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#47
That makes sense, Robert. Whether the javelins/plumbatae were clipped or belted, or quivered, or whatever. They are stand-off weapons, and except for the really rare ambush, they'd be sent toward the enemy lines before the shield needs to be used in hand to hand fighting.

So has the thinking reverted to a few plumbatae put on the back of the shield? I still think, marching and carrying a shield laden with a kilo or two of missile weapons would add to the left arm fatigue considerably. I'd be trying to figure out how to carry them some other way pretty quickly. A shield is sort of a clumsy thing at best.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#48
Quote:So has the thinking reverted to a few plumbatae put on the back of the shield? I still think, marching and carrying a shield laden with a kilo or two of missile weapons would add to the left arm fatigue considerably. I'd be trying to figure out how to carry them some other way pretty quickly. A shield is sort of a clumsy thing at best.
True, but a plumbata weighs on average between 80 and 140 grams. Only one really heavy dude weighed 341 grams. So on average, 5 plumbatae would be less than a kilo.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#49
You still have the problem of that if you have a shield that's dished, a Plumbata won't fit on the inside of the shield.

Also, Ambushes were common in the 5th century.
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#50
Quote:You still have the problem of that if you have a shield that's dished, a Plumbata won't fit on the inside of the shield.
No, that is no problem either, because a) plumbatae aren't very long darts (current thinking has them between 20 and 40 cm) and dished shields are not that curved that this would be a problem. My (totally unproven) suspension system

This is the old version, with a flat shield and plumbatae twice as long, but you get the idea:
[Image: plumbata7.jpg]
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply


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