Scutum Carrying Strap

[Anonymous]

Ave,<br>
<br>
I've Been wondering about the same shield strap thing. Those Republicans are Junklemans, and though I can't read German, his book "The Legions of Augustus" has a diagram of their carrying set up. It doesn't quite show how it all connects in back unfortunatly, but it appears to be a wide strap, relatively short, running directly from the handle, up over the left shoulder and back to the handle. The other strap runs across the back, around the right upper arm, where it has a buckle in front, and across, under the left arm and back to the shield. It appears that this second strap is attached to the first strap, and is to prevent the first strap from sliding off the shoulder. I guess you unbuckle the cross strap to drop the whole thing. I am also willing to bet that if I could read it, it would all become clearer. This does seem to have the advantage of holding the shield high on the back, and distributing the weight. I'm not sure how practical all those straps would be with the segmentata. I'll just have to try it.<br>
<br>
Vale, Quintus <p></p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

If your scutum is properly made, with linen and/or leather on both the face and the back, carrying it the way Junklemann describes when wearing segmentata is likely to do irreparable damage to the inside of the shield as it scrapes against the shoulder guard. If the scutum has been made on the cheap and is nothing but painted wood, the damage could be much worse. Some friends of mine tried a route march using Junklemann style carrying harnesses and by the end of the day their shoulder guards had reduced areas of the tops of their scuta to little more than splintered matchwood.<br>
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Hope that helps a little.<br>
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Oh, and Antoninus, 67.5 inches is 5 feet seven and a half inches (I have just about given up using French [sorry - metric] measurement since returning to England after a 22 year sojourn in New Zealand six and a half years ago).<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>

[derek forrest]

I have been using that Junkelman method of carriage for four or five years , including the route march on the wall and an awful lot of marching around during displays.<br>
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When used with the impendimenta the bottom of the shield is Pulled away from your legs. I have used the same shield throughout admittedly , without linen on the inside . but with no sign of damage. It is comfortable and a logical solution. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

It is my understanding that the Junkelman method is purely conjecture whereas the famous marching scene from Trajan's columns clearly shows legionares carrying their scuta over their left shoulders. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Ave,<br>
<br>
True indeed. I am looking at a photo of the soldiers, and they are primarily carrying the shields on their left/front sides. Mostly only the men in back even have furcas. There are also no covers on the scuta. I am also reminded that the furca all are shown with a curved cross bar, and wonder if anyone has tried that.<br>
<br>
Vale, Quintus Florentius <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

curved crossbar on the furca -<br>
<br>
nah, that's just the crossbar bending from all of the weight from the loculus and the tonnage of hardtack you'd have to carry <br>
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seriously though - that is an interesting thought. hrmmmm. <p>-ANDY aka "Roman Dude" Svaviter in Modo, Fortiter in Re<br>
<br>
www.higgins.org </p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Ave Derek,<br>
<br>
Would there be any way for you to post some detail pictures of your Junkleman setup? I'm wondering if you wear a segmentata or hamata? By Impedimenta are your refering to the furca et al.? If you can't post pics, I'll send you my e-mail address.<br>
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I've just been mucking about more with the the strap system. I am wearing a new model Newstead, and have been trying all different length straps to the handle over each shoulder. I'm trying a deep hook on each end, into a ring attached to the handle. I can't figure any way of keeping it from bouncing off some part of my leg, higher or lower. If I slide it around to the back, it rides at an angle! If it's too short and on the side, where dies your arm go? That's actually what I see as the problem with the underarm gasher on the Stilfried Newstead. If you hang your shield off it, where does your arm go? I'll try to get it together to slap a photo or two up as a descriptor...<br>
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It seems to me that the Junkleman method might work with a seg. if your cross strap goes under the arm instead of over. But can you get it high enough to get it off your leg?<br>
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Vale, Quintus Florentius <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Ave,<br>
<br>
I wanted to update you all on what I've found for the Scutum carrying dilemma. I've posted the relevant photos on my website (which is evolving to something better), under the Scutum link. The photos detail the equipment used, and it's construction. I carried the shield for an entire trekk, most of a day, and really never felt it. The weight is so spread out over the segmentata you just really don't know its there. When picking up the furca, I'd lay it across my shoulder, making sure the ditty bag and company were outside the scutum, slide it down into place, then shove the shield into position on my back. The only time I had any difficulty was when I didn't do this, and the top rotated out a bit, causing me to lose the furca off my shoulder. I think this will be mediated by having the permanent rings on the shield a little further out from the center. It does seem that the furca is part of keeping the scutum off your legs for the long haul, but I was certainly able to walk around unencumbered without it.<br>
I will shorten both the shoulder and the torso strap. The torso strap seems to fulfill the same function as Junklemans over the outside of the arm strap. Donning the rig is pretty simple, I jsut pick up the sheild, put the should strap over and hook it, then slide the shield back around, and buckle the torso strap. Removal is the reverse.<br>
Here's the site, got to scutum: florentius.com/<br>
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I'm very interested to hear if this works for anyone else-<br>
<br>
Vale, Quintus Florentius<br>
florentius.com<br>
<img src="http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v212/jaredfleury/tabulimgif.gif" style="border:0;"/><br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

Florentius,<br>
Looking at your photos it looks as if the shoulder strap is passed through the neck opening and out again through the armhole. Is this the case or am I misinterpretting what I am seeing? If it is the case, why?<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Ave Crispus,<br>
<br>
Very observant! It does look that way. I need a better photo. But no, it runs over the top of the armour. It slides in under the upper shoulder guard, and seems to hang off the vertical side of the breastplate, as it wraps around back.<br>
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I really felt I needed the hooks, for easy on/off but I am aware of nothing like that in the artifactual records. I'm thinking probably the simple loops girth hitched onto the handle, and on/off with the buckle is more believable.<br>
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Another experiment I want to do is attach the shoulder strap out to each side of the scutum cover, that might help explain the lack of attachment rings on the artifacts (I've heard of the rings on one found, but have yet to find a picture that shows them). The strap could practically be permanently mounted to the cover if that method worked.<br>
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Another issue that seems to come up for some people is the messing up the inside of the scutum. Thus far, my experiment has not had this result. Here are my thoughts as to why :<br>
1) I have not had the opportunity to try it for a great length of time, so this could change.<br>
2) My scutum is mounted high enough so the top edge is well above the shoulder plate edges.<br>
3) My shoulder plates may be bent in tighter to the torso at the bottom edge and therefore give a more streamlined surface for the scutum to ride against. Of course I've got those big Newstead hooks in back there too, and they appear to leave no mark either...curious, I guess time will tell.<br>
<br>
Valete, Quintus Florentius<br>
LEGVIVICPF<br>
www.florentius.com <br>
<img src="http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v212/jaredfleury/tabulimgif.gif" style="border:0;"/> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jaredfleury>jaredfleury</A> at: 6/8/04 6:27 am<br></i>

[Anonymous]

but repeating a question that I had previously posted, what is the evidence that the romans actually employed the Jukeman carrying method? The pictures on Trajan's column show legionaires carrying their scuta over their left shoulders. On my scutum I simply attached a leather strap between a pair of brass rings fashioned to a pair of the rivets used to attach the boss. I usually need help getting the strap over my shoulder, as the strap tends to catch on the shoulder plates of my segmentata, but once suitably looped over my shoulder, carrying my scutum this way is quite easy and envolves little discomfort. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Good question (again ).<br>
<br>
I would (I think I asked the question on the furca thread) still love to know if there are ANY other depictions of Soldiers on the march, gear in hand.<br>
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My personal experience is that a single shoulder strap, or just carrying it in my hand is cumbersome, usually requires assistance to get on under that shoulder plate, same for off, plus, when you add the leather cover, nicely oiled to be water proof, thats a noticable amount of weight. I have perused all the Legion sites I can find looking for marching pictures, and unfortunatly found very few. The only ones I've found that mention the carrying method at all are Matts Leg XX site, and Hibernicus Leg IX. They both seem to have come to the same conclusion as you. Dan Peterson also comes to the same conclusion in his book and unfortunatly since I can't read German, I don't yet know if there are certain details that led Junkelman to his solution. I hope to be able to get that someday.<br>
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We do know that Trajans is not a perfect depiction. It is incredibly cool and useful and we would be miles behind without it, but it is not cannon, it is made to give a show, not unfortunalty to show the full reality we'd like to see. We don't make our segs like that, it doesn't show scutum covers, the furcas are held improbably, and very few real helmets seem to have a giant ring on top.<br>
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To this point, I've found the Junkleman method to work perfectly in consort with the furca. For the first time, I didn't have to think about the scutum, I was able to easily carry the furca on my left shoulder as depicted, with very little attention paid to controlling it, and have my right hand free for pilum action. I could easily mount or remove the scutum without assistance.<br>
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Roman Meister Conolly depicts the scutums carried on the back in The Legionary, on a strap system, as does Simkins in Legions of the North. While I certainly admit I don't have have artifactual proof, the fact that these guys show a back carry method, and at least some well respected Legions, ESG for example, are convinced enough of the efficay of the Junkelman method to use it, till I see a better way I'm sold. I guess since we just can't know at this point, it's whatever works.<br>
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Whew, hows that?<br>
<br>
Vale, Quintus Florentius<br>
LEGVIVICPF<br>
<img src="http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v212/jaredfleury/tabulimgif.gif" style="border:0;"/><br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jaredfleury>jaredfleury</A> at: 6/9/04 5:44 am<br></i>

[Crispvs]

One of the Mainz column bases shows two bareheaded soldiers who may be on the march, one of whom is a standard bearer. The other soldier carries his helmet slung against his pilum, which is carried over his right shoulder. His shield is held high up on his left, possibly by some sort of strap but is positioned against his side rather than his back. No impedimenta is shown however, reducing its value as an aid to our understanding.<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i></i>