05-31-2013, 11:49 AM
@antiochus
Why are the prior/posterior deployments of the centuries different between the periods? I've never come across anything that suggests that - please point me. In addition, I believe there is only the one reference in Ceasar's commentaries that suggests that a 4-3-3 cohort deployment was used instead of the otherwise normal legion in 3 lines which could easily have been preserved if they chose to. Whilst cohorts were now regularly used, the only thing I find a bit odd in that particular formation is that it was not 4-4-2 - for then at least the 2nd line units could cover the same frontage - as was done previously.
Simple marching is complex? I assure you, from personal experience, that I could get a group of 120-160 teenage cadets to roughly perform those moves in much less than an afternoon. Teenagers who are often un-cordinated to boot, but can do turn-move-halt-turn-move-halt very easily. Moreover, the posterior century move left move forward to make the line, whilst being able to move back and assume any intermediate position (just like in the original picture that I shall re-post here) allows any of the Zama-like evolutions we like to interpret. I would also go as far as to say that the middle deployment of my picture is much more a 'quincunx' than yours - let alone I think your saw-tooth isn't what he meant. Saw-tooth is just like the sort of thing I've alluded to in disrupting the phalanx - advance the Prior century a pace or two, or the posterior back a pace or two - or both - and then advance and retreat in those pairs across the line - and that's the actions of a saw - sawing at the phalanx-line to disrupt and destroy it.
I didn't mention age - but equipment. It is a digression, but there are sufficient references in many sources (cf Gallic Wars 8.17) to a 'lighter infantry' in the Roman legions to suggest that the velites of the Early Republic may well have remained in the century/maniple/cohort structure of the Late Republic (and possibly still the younger members who are more nimble); let alone the differently armed soldiers of Josephus' guard troops withdrawn from the legions; and the later references to lanciarii in the Late Army. All may represent no change in actual overall structure.
In order for the maniples of the cohorts to fight side-by-side as opposed to in separate lines (if that is what happened), then no, I would expect the centuries to keep the men they had trained and that all would become experienced so that each cohort didn't have a weaker left than right.
Why are the prior/posterior deployments of the centuries different between the periods? I've never come across anything that suggests that - please point me. In addition, I believe there is only the one reference in Ceasar's commentaries that suggests that a 4-3-3 cohort deployment was used instead of the otherwise normal legion in 3 lines which could easily have been preserved if they chose to. Whilst cohorts were now regularly used, the only thing I find a bit odd in that particular formation is that it was not 4-4-2 - for then at least the 2nd line units could cover the same frontage - as was done previously.
Simple marching is complex? I assure you, from personal experience, that I could get a group of 120-160 teenage cadets to roughly perform those moves in much less than an afternoon. Teenagers who are often un-cordinated to boot, but can do turn-move-halt-turn-move-halt very easily. Moreover, the posterior century move left move forward to make the line, whilst being able to move back and assume any intermediate position (just like in the original picture that I shall re-post here) allows any of the Zama-like evolutions we like to interpret. I would also go as far as to say that the middle deployment of my picture is much more a 'quincunx' than yours - let alone I think your saw-tooth isn't what he meant. Saw-tooth is just like the sort of thing I've alluded to in disrupting the phalanx - advance the Prior century a pace or two, or the posterior back a pace or two - or both - and then advance and retreat in those pairs across the line - and that's the actions of a saw - sawing at the phalanx-line to disrupt and destroy it.
I didn't mention age - but equipment. It is a digression, but there are sufficient references in many sources (cf Gallic Wars 8.17) to a 'lighter infantry' in the Roman legions to suggest that the velites of the Early Republic may well have remained in the century/maniple/cohort structure of the Late Republic (and possibly still the younger members who are more nimble); let alone the differently armed soldiers of Josephus' guard troops withdrawn from the legions; and the later references to lanciarii in the Late Army. All may represent no change in actual overall structure.
In order for the maniples of the cohorts to fight side-by-side as opposed to in separate lines (if that is what happened), then no, I would expect the centuries to keep the men they had trained and that all would become experienced so that each cohort didn't have a weaker left than right.
