05-21-2013, 06:15 PM
Macedon wrote:
The things that struck me as odd have all to do with the cavalry deployment. The first thing that troubled me to see it as a standard battle-line was the deployment of the Roman cavalry behind the Triarii, which I guess you did to compare their frontages as you suggest them to be. The second thing was that you deployed the allied cavalry in three lines, which, to the best of my knowledge, was not yet an option. The third thing was that you posted the turmae (or whatever squadrons they would form) too close to each other, which makes it impossible for them to fight in the usual/traditional (for the era) manner of "perispasmoi".
Definitely worthy of discussion then - here (I don't want to de-rail the OP), or I'll re-post and take it there - as well as inviting all those with an armchair, fine brandy and an open mind?
The cavalry particularly is shown where it is for three reasons:
- that I want to show all of them and there are 3x as many Allied cavalry as Roman and I've put them on the wings
- that the frontage of 10 turma is the same as for 10 maniples and effectively then all are interchangeable, within a single deployment construct
- and, where else do I put them?
The Roman cavalry are behind the Roman legions and just 'behind' the Consul (the tiny dot right in the centre at the rear of each formation) acting as the reserve, able to receive immediate orders and deploy wherever needed, but, as you surmise, were actually drawn there to show the relationships.
I don't understand why you might think that deploying in 3 lines for the cavalry was "not yet an option" - that's certainly worth a discussion, but nothing at all prevents 'attack & retreat' tactics - that's just the cavalry version of the infantry rotating ranks and rotating maniples. As I now understand it - if you think of an individual man as a century, then the tactics are just the same. The cavalry turma in 3 ranks of 10 fight with the first two ranks (both probably forming 2x10man wedges or, later, when equipped with javelins to play follow the leader and perform the 'cantabrian'; and the 3rd as a reserve - just the same as the 3 lines of cavalry can, the same as the Hastati & Principes, with the Triarii as the reserve. I see it as a very simple system that any competent Consul could then use.
In short, however, the picture(s) are the 'having moved up and formed the battle array' formation(s) and not what might then happen in the actual battle - but could show what was possible. For example, the famous 'Zama tactic' is simply possible by marching the rear-centuries back to the column position, rather than forward to make the line.
The things that struck me as odd have all to do with the cavalry deployment. The first thing that troubled me to see it as a standard battle-line was the deployment of the Roman cavalry behind the Triarii, which I guess you did to compare their frontages as you suggest them to be. The second thing was that you deployed the allied cavalry in three lines, which, to the best of my knowledge, was not yet an option. The third thing was that you posted the turmae (or whatever squadrons they would form) too close to each other, which makes it impossible for them to fight in the usual/traditional (for the era) manner of "perispasmoi".
Definitely worthy of discussion then - here (I don't want to de-rail the OP), or I'll re-post and take it there - as well as inviting all those with an armchair, fine brandy and an open mind?
The cavalry particularly is shown where it is for three reasons:
- that I want to show all of them and there are 3x as many Allied cavalry as Roman and I've put them on the wings
- that the frontage of 10 turma is the same as for 10 maniples and effectively then all are interchangeable, within a single deployment construct
- and, where else do I put them?
The Roman cavalry are behind the Roman legions and just 'behind' the Consul (the tiny dot right in the centre at the rear of each formation) acting as the reserve, able to receive immediate orders and deploy wherever needed, but, as you surmise, were actually drawn there to show the relationships.
I don't understand why you might think that deploying in 3 lines for the cavalry was "not yet an option" - that's certainly worth a discussion, but nothing at all prevents 'attack & retreat' tactics - that's just the cavalry version of the infantry rotating ranks and rotating maniples. As I now understand it - if you think of an individual man as a century, then the tactics are just the same. The cavalry turma in 3 ranks of 10 fight with the first two ranks (both probably forming 2x10man wedges or, later, when equipped with javelins to play follow the leader and perform the 'cantabrian'; and the 3rd as a reserve - just the same as the 3 lines of cavalry can, the same as the Hastati & Principes, with the Triarii as the reserve. I see it as a very simple system that any competent Consul could then use.
In short, however, the picture(s) are the 'having moved up and formed the battle array' formation(s) and not what might then happen in the actual battle - but could show what was possible. For example, the famous 'Zama tactic' is simply possible by marching the rear-centuries back to the column position, rather than forward to make the line.
