Question of Accuracy - Imperial Helmets

[Quintius Clavus]

The above helmet offered by Rusty through his business is a Deepeeka reproduction. The original was found in the Hebron area of Israel. It could possibly date to the Third Jewish War era (circa AD 132) under Hadrian. I saw the original when it was on loan at the Museum of Antiquities in Newcastle (UK) in 1978. I also have its picture in my copy of HRR's The Armour of Imperial Rome - actually four views of it. Technically, like many reproductions, they don't get all the details right. The original has very shallow steps on the occipital region of the back of the helmet just above the neckguard; the bronze band on the front of the brow reinforcement is narrower, etc. Interestingly, the ear guards on the original actually angle/curve back toward the helmet bowl at the rear, rather than going straight down to the neckguard as in the Deepeeka reproduction.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Yeah Deepeeka isn't always the best, when were the images take?

[Doc]

One of the main reasons why mass produced items have all this errors in their copies is because they nearly use the same equipment, shapes, tools....etc to make EVERYTHING. If you look at all the original helmets there was some variation in bowl shape, occiput steps, rosettes, browbands.....the list goes on.

What happens in these mass produced items is that the same rosette stamp is used to make them ALL when in fact there were variations. In this case, I have to agree with Quintus about the comments he made about the G.

With respect to the earlier post of the neck guard striking the back of the armor, this could be a problem that technically is part of the original design of some helmets. It should not be a problem with the Gallic G as Matt pointed out because the original had a small neck guard alleviating this problem. So if the copy of the Gallic G in question has this problem, then it is a poor copy. On the other hand, there was the Gallic C and H, whose neck guards are rather wide and have a deep angle. This during the Roman period could have caused the problem with the neck guard striking the back of the armor. However, we have to wonder if it was a real problem because the Gallic C was produced before the Gallic H. The helmets in between had smaller neck guards. So why did they go from huge on the C then small with the intermediate helmets and back to huge on the H? Even in the Italic series, the D neck guard is also quite large although the angle not quite as exaggerated.

So the neck guard issue should not sway you from buying a particular helmet. However, the details that are constantly wrong is what you should be more concerned with.

Having said this, everything depends on what you CAN afford and HOW detailed and accurate you want to go. For most reenactment events, the mass produced items are ok. The problem is that they are all made EXACTLY the same way and it gives a misrepresentation that the Roman army looked all pretty and neat.....like our modern armies when they wear dress uniform or even their fatigues.

Most people will not know that the rosettes are incorrect for a particular helmet and that is where you may want to point out what is going on. If on the other hand, you are doing this for yourself and you can LIVE with the mistakes, then go ahead and buy what you like from the mass produced items since they are pretty much all the same thing.....give or take.

However, I see you are asking about the accuracy of these helmets, this makes me think you would like something that is nearly identical to the original. If my estimation is correct then NONE of the mass produced helmets, in my opinion, will suffice. Now, I say nearly because even custom helmets have their flaws the difference usually being that "flaw" is something the same smith would make IF he made the same two helmets twice. The flaws with the mass produced items are not due to variation but poor design and study where the focus is just to bang out things for quick bucks.

[equilan]

Hi Everyone!

Does anybody know anything of the quality of these helmets? http://www.zbroje.cz/obdobi/starovek/prilby/
Also i would like to ask you about the segmentatas, this guys does :http://www.zbroje.cz/obdobi/starovek/zbroje/1640/

Does anybody have some information about him?

Appius

[A_Volpe]

Leg XX's site is still a good source for good vs bad gear, as well as an extensive list of suppliers/websites.

http://larp.com/legioxx/bad.html

The "Hebron" Italic G, as Quintius Clavus mentioned, depending on where it was made and -when- can be good or mediocre. I happen to have an Albion Armorer's Hebron, made some 10 years ago. The helmet itself seems pretty much spot on. The cross-brace reinforce over the top of the helmet was "too perfect", so I removed the mounts (which were small screw bolts, obviously not correct), hammered/roughed up the edges of the guards and put them back on with copper rivets. I also had to add a chin-strap "anchor" to the bottom middle of the neck guard, which was easy to make with a piece of brass sheet and rod, and a rivet.

The ear guards / flanges are the only other problem, as apparently the actual helmet had a more "pointed" shape to them, rather than cut off straight.

Looking at the photos posted, it appears the top photo is a different build from the bottom helmet! The neck guard on the bottom appears different in shape compared to the top one. What is the 'correct' shape I don't know. (I only really use the helmet now and then as a try-on at school programs, very rarely do I wear it)

One of our members in Leg III got this type of helmet from I -think- Soul of the Warrior years ago, and it had the correct ear guards, but the cheek guards seemed a little odd.

In the end, you'll have to carefully compare known drawings and photos (ie "Roman Military Equipment", Bishop & Coulston; and here on RAT the imagebase if it's still available?) and decide what maker's helmet gets as close to what you feel is the closest match, as otherwise you'll have to consider modifying it yourself, or have someone custom make it, etc. which can be expensive.

Also, don't feel restricted to the Gallic H & F types. The Coolus types (I think now called Bugenen?) that are all brass, from places like Deepeeka and Danyial, are pretty darned good. No matter what you do, it's not going to be "100% super duper accurate" because 1. everything back then was made by hand, and no surviving Roman helmet is absolutely straight and perfect (ask yourself what is your accuracy tolerance? 1 inch off or 1 mm?) , 2. everyone's heads are different. Just like hat sizes today, there's a "standard" but they all don't exactly line up with each other between the standards in the world - Same with these manufactured helmets. Everything's made within a certain tolerance. Nature of the beast when it comes to mass-manufacturing to fit several different bodies without going insanely expensive and custom. 3. Just don't buy that Trooper helmet ;D

Either way, good luck.

[Vitruvius]

Ave, Nathan,
I cannot disagree with Andy Volpe when he recomments Matt Amt's Legio XX site for Dos and Do nots. He's got it together for certain.
Salve Frater,
Vitruvius.....aka Larry Mager