05-08-2013, 01:27 AM
Mark,
I do respect the fact that you have re-enacting experience.
What i say is your experience is very different than mine.
I have too in both medieval and ancient.
In the viking shield wall most people are not very tight together as there is not enough room to manouver with axes and longswords.
The hoplite phalanx is the definition of tight formation. When with locked shields there is just one human foot between people in parallel or vertical.
You barely control your movement in this formation. All together move or all together stop.
It takes training to move sideways as a group and it was rarely done even in antiquity.
Once engaged you can only go forward. Nowhere else. Its the tactic of the steamroller
If two phalanxes engage and one collapses there is no way to control the domino effect of a guy falling on another and not just one guy in this case. Weapons are not the issue. Unstoppable mass is the problem. You can not stop if a number of shields are in full contact with the forwards guy's back and keep shoving no matter what.
A bruise is no reason for fuss I agree. What guarantees that a guy who got cuts to his lips from his helmet because of the violent contact will not make a fuss? What guarantees that that one mass of people will not step and crack joints on a mass of other fallen people or suffocate them?
Real life examples? Paniced exits of crowds from stadious or metro statons.
Kind regards
I do respect the fact that you have re-enacting experience.
What i say is your experience is very different than mine.
I have too in both medieval and ancient.
In the viking shield wall most people are not very tight together as there is not enough room to manouver with axes and longswords.
The hoplite phalanx is the definition of tight formation. When with locked shields there is just one human foot between people in parallel or vertical.
You barely control your movement in this formation. All together move or all together stop.
It takes training to move sideways as a group and it was rarely done even in antiquity.
Once engaged you can only go forward. Nowhere else. Its the tactic of the steamroller
If two phalanxes engage and one collapses there is no way to control the domino effect of a guy falling on another and not just one guy in this case. Weapons are not the issue. Unstoppable mass is the problem. You can not stop if a number of shields are in full contact with the forwards guy's back and keep shoving no matter what.
A bruise is no reason for fuss I agree. What guarantees that a guy who got cuts to his lips from his helmet because of the violent contact will not make a fuss? What guarantees that that one mass of people will not step and crack joints on a mass of other fallen people or suffocate them?
Real life examples? Paniced exits of crowds from stadious or metro statons.
Kind regards
HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)
Phokean Ekdromos
http://hetairoi.de/
http://hoplomachia.gr
http://stefanosskarmintzos.wordpress.com
Phokean Ekdromos
http://hetairoi.de/
http://hoplomachia.gr
http://stefanosskarmintzos.wordpress.com
