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Roman Camps Found in Germany
#1
Salvete,

A friend has brought to my attention that a pair of Roman camps has recently been found near Limburg in Germany:

Newspaper

One of the camps was 14ha and both camps are believed to be Augustan in date based on finds of Dressel 1 amphorae and a Celtic coin.
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
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#2
Thanks a lot , Jens ...
....so Oberbrechen was just the "deputy"-camp ?

Greez

Simplex

More here :
http://www.mittelhessen.de/lokales/regio...32031.html
http://novesium.wordpress.com/2012/11/21...-a-d-lahn/
I think I should try and get a subsciption of Dr. Jürgen Franssen's Novaesium blog. :oops:
There I also got :
„Da offischal un“ :
http://articles.hessen-archaeologie.de/c...event=View
(with 5 pics)
A bit more extensive:
http://justupersner.de/Carsten/Dateien/A...t_2012.pdf
The older camp was ca. 10 ha, the younger one ca. 4 ha large.
Dating : The older one: "Oberaden-Horizon" ca.11/8 BC , like Rödgen and Hedemünden, the younger one "Haltern-Horizon" ca. up tom 9/16 AD.
BTW: These camps are ca. 5km away from the Oberbrechen camp and ca. 50 km from Lahnau-Waldgirmes
Siggi K.
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#3
I'm impressed by the large holes in the ground and the amount of work done to show the ditches?
I'll have to see about translating it to see what they say!
Very well dug ditches from the looks of it!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#4
O.K. !
.... you've been asking for it :
A "quick'n dirty one" of that *.pdf :
Romans in Limburg/Lahn (D)
The new build of a bridge for A 3 motorway at Limburg an der Lahn made it possible:
Before the bridge-builders would start working, a geomagnetic prospecting of the area gave way
to a spectacular new find. Already as far back as 1936-37 a floor plan of a Neolithic House and pits of a Celtic settlement had come to daylight during investigations there.
The recent excavations in April of this year yielded more house floorplans from the Neolithic, bronze age burial mounds - and two Roman camps.
According to first findings, the two camps are Augustean, however from different dates.
The older one, which was 10 hectares in size and offered space for about 2,500 soldiers, dated to the time of the Roman camp Oberaden (11 to/8-7 BC) -- prima facie. The younger camp occupies 4 hectares in area and accomodated about 1,000 men, should have been (in use) at the same time with Haltern and given up 9 AD (or 16 A.d.) .
The new camps naturally pose several questions, e.g. why the Romans gave up their first camp at all. Unfortunately no traces in the ground have survived, that could indicate whether the camp has been cleared “on schedule”, which can be asserted with some certainty, however. The fact that the younger camp was built in the immediate vicinity of the first camp demonstrates that the place had been elected for the establishment of a military on purpose. It seems to “lay on hand” that this first camp can be seen in connection with the campaigns of Drusus (12-9 b.c.) , similarly like that at Rödgen (Bad Nauheim, Hesse) or also (that) at Hedemünden (Hannoversch Münden, Lower Saxony, Germany).
For that second camp certainly a connection to the Roman city in the present-day Waldgirmes, roughly only 50km distant and in the process of being etablished right then naturally springs to mind even more so. We are very much looking forward for the further scientific evaluation of the excavations!

Dr. Peter Kracht, Unna

Greez

Simplex

No time for further checking left.
Siggi K.
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#5
I just had news popping up on this, but I'll have to double-check these, before I get more specific.
In the meantime:

Moving pictures :woot:
http://www.rtl-hessen.de/videos.php?vide...ategorie=0

Hoping to be back soon.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
Reply
#6
Nice, tidy site Wink
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#7
O.K. , here we have it :
http://www.n24.de/n24/Wissen/History/d/2...mburg.html
It sez : Julius Cäsars Krieger -- Römische Legionäre kamen bis Limburg
Julius Caesar's Warriors -- Roman Legionarys came to Limburg
The essence of this and the first lines at Badische Zeitung from Friday is : The older of the two camps found at the A3-bridge next to Limburg is NOT Augustean, but "caesarian" ( or "late republican/latest republican" in the real idiom :errr: )
A press-conference by the Ministry of Education and the Hessen-Archäologie is to be held at
Wiesbaden on Friday, May 2nd .(Actually it is the presentation of the annual volume of "hessenArchäologie" -- that would be the 2012 volume.)
I'd expect the press-conference to be held at the Biebricher Schloss in the premises of the
Denkmalpflege Hessen (Biebricher Schloss 1)

More soon as further news will allow.

EDIT :Got an answer with nearly no informations in it. Try again as time permits.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
Reply
#8
No "official news" from the press- conference, but it has been the Radio/TV-News today at HR.
http://www.hr-online.de/website/rubriken...t_48332795

Pics: you bet. Movin pics: yep.

I'll try and translate that in due course.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
Reply
#9
Alright, here it is ... rather makeshift, but .....
-----
Hobnails and mural remains
Julius Caesar at the Autobahn

Spectacular find: The camps' trench with a gate at the Autobahn

Hardly discernible for the layman, but a sensation to the hassian Archeologists : two roman camps have been excavated on occasion of a building of a (new) bridge for the A3 (=Autobahn 3)near Limburg (Lahn).
This now stands well-established : Roman commander-in-chief Julius Caesar has been to Hassia.

Video : Roman camps, excavated. 1:36 Min

Copyrighted: HR , Hessenschau 02.05.2013

Amongst others, hobnails from roman soldier's shoes have been acquired, and these stem from from the times of Cesars conquest of Gaul. These and the 2 camps prove that the Romans had built "Ceasarian military camps on the right side of the Rhine, in what is modern-day Hassia" , Secretary-of-Art Eva Kühne-Hörmann (CDU) and the archologist-in-chief Prof.Dr.Egon Schallmayer both underlined at the presentation of the finds at the Wiesbaden-Biebrich palace (today).

Finds from roman times

Click on a pic for the gallery (3 pics)

Most likely these important finds would have been "irrecoverably destroyed by the building project. Which makes evident the need for archeological care of monuments" , the secretary added.
The finds now shall be examined interdisciplinary by the scholars of the(Hassian) Archeological Authority and the Mainz University, amongst others.

Romans and Gauls as neighbours
In the course of a road-building project the scholars of HessenArchäologie (i.e. the Hassian chief Archeological Authority) had surveiled the area north of the (river) Lahn and were surprise by two roman camps showing up in the scales. The older (southward) camp, meanwhile excavated, enclosed about 10 ha , the younger (northward)camp right above the Lahn came out with 4 ha. On top of that a celtic settlement ( mid-LaTene to lateLaTene = 3rd to 1st century BC) was spotted directly north of the older roman camp.

Hobnails from the year 50BC
The examinations gave that the older camp had been errected while the gaul settlement was still populated.
The second camp was built after the gaul inhabitants had given up their settlement.
From the older camp, the researchers found just parts that had been baked together to so-called iron-lumps , pressed together to complete indiscernibility. This complicated a closer dating. Totally different in the younger camp, then. Here the excavation brought to light "informative" iron-lumps". They contained hobnails from roman soldiers shoes, which, after their characteristic shape and size have been in use in the times of roman commander Julius Caesar , at about 50BC.
(Rem.: Those datings have been verified on and on stemming from comparable french finding spots
like Alesia -- a similar camp has been spotted and excavated mear Hermeskeil-Otzenhausen --
we already have a thread on this :
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/17-roma...found.html )

Clues from a "diary-of-orders"
So both camps presumably were built during conquest and safeguarding of Gaul by Julius Caesar.
We shall, so the press-release of the Hassain Ministry for Science and Art "see the camps in conjuction with the
bridging of the Rhine, which Cesar mentioned in his war-journal ("De Bello Gallico"). He there referred to two
crossings of the Rhine in 55 and 53 AD between Koblenz and Neuwied. How he moved on from then, had been unclear hitherto."
-----
Out and Over

Mistake finders >> Keepers !

Greez

Siggi
Siggi K.
Reply
#10
Mo Pics in " da offischal pressrelease" of the Hassian Government.
https://www.hessen.de/presse/pressemitte...h-hessen-0
"Through Hassia in Cesars Shoes" says the headline -- they gonna rename the Hassian Parliament into
"Cesars Palace" ? :errr:
Lets see whether I can translate that too -- more rewarding than the note mentioned above.

Greez

Simplex

EDIT : Nahhww, doesn't look too worthwile -- I thinke we can tolerate the minor mistakes above.
Hopefully there will be an "offischal pressrelease" by the archeological authorities.
Siggi K.
Reply
#11
Next attempt in using RAT again.

Are we getting "intellectual" now ? :errr:
I needed a couple of day for digesting the news.
More interesting than the solution of the old problem what way Cesar took when invading Germania Libera are two facts:
1) The gaul settlement at this place did not exist by the time, the second camp was established.
This , in analogy to Hermeskeil inevitably leads to the question. Why ?
IMHO we may have two likely causes:
a) Early execise of roman "settling policy" with tribes under their "custody".
b) Genocide on a grandscale
2) The local settlement exhibited a decidedly "gaulic" culture, not a "germanic" one.
That means: Cesars differentiations (in short) Gauls right, Germanics left (of the Rhine) is moot -- at best.
Chances are that the Suevians were the only germanic tribe G.J.C. ever encountered.
Also the germanic tribes further east may have benefitted from the fact that Caesar and his successors "stripped" the areas adjacent to the river Rhine quite completely of the Gauls that used to live there.

My 10 asses of thought.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
Reply


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