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PTSD in ancient times - new evidence?
#1
I know that many RAT members are of the opinion - at least that's been my impression - that soldiers didn't suffer from PTSD in ancient times.

I've always disagreed with that opinion - sticking a blade in a man's guts and seeing the light go from his eyes, and feeling his blood all over you affects everyone, even someone who is used to a short, sharp brutal life.

Anyway, there's some 'new' evidence to imply that soldiers did suffer from being in combat.
Ben Kane, bestselling author of the Eagles of Rome, Spartacus and Hannibal novels.

Eagles in the Storm released in UK on March 23, 2017.
Aguilas en la tormenta saldra en 2017.


www.benkane.net
Twitter: @benkaneauthor
Facebook: facebook.com/benkanebooks
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#2
Centurio,

PTSD is often difficult to diagnose and is generally misunderstood. As a retired Army officer, I have dealt innumerable men who have been in combat. There is no doubt in my mind that taking a life in combat changes the soldier's perspective. For some the experience perpetually haunts them, for others it is
"absorbed". Further complicating PTSD is the fact that the symptoms vary greatly: everything from mild depression to out-of-control behavior.

I agree with you that soldiers throughout history have been susceptible to PTSD or its equivalent. But a problem does arise when comparing what in the present era is presented as PTSD. Part of the problem arises out of the different context of the particular civilization and its attitudes towards life, the role of a soldier, etc.

This is a topic that is worthy of further research. Thank you for raising the issue.

Petrus Augustinus
(Pierre Kleff)
Petrus Augustinus
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#3
For all your PTSD needs in ancient history:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/1994/94.03.21.html

http://www.cwu.edu/~garrison/Achilles_in_Vietnam.pdf
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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#4
For all your PTSD needs in ancient history:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/1994/94.03.21.html

http://www.cwu.edu/~garrison/Achilles_in_Vietnam.pdf
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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#5
http://www.oxbowbooks.com/oxbow/combat-t...reeks.html
"Combat Trauma and the Ancient Greeks" Peter Meineck and David Konstan (Editor)
Joe Balmos
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#6
I agree with Petrus - I'm sure there were were ancient troops who did get affected by what we now know as PTSD, however I don't think it was an assured mass - diagnosed condition that all were susceptible to. From a purely anecdotal perspective I don't believe I acquired such a condition in two tours to Iraq; that being said, I know there are those that claim to have it simply from deploying in-country. (Even if they were fobbits that never left the wire) Indeed there are some that even claim their three months in boot camp was sufficient to produce the effect!

I could see perhaps if the unit in question was newly raised and green that there would be a higher percentage of the troops affected versus a veteran unit, but it still comes down to the mental toughness of the individual soldier. Some can handle the situation and come out fine. For others, PTSD is an occupational hazard they would have had to deal with...
-Ryan

-Cave a sinistra manu utebatur pro bellator.
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#7
It may help here to bring up the fact that every soldier in every battle, from Megiddo to the Donetsk Airport, has a different threshold for dealing with traumatic events. No one is sure how to determine the threshold (short of crossing it) or how the threshold develops. Intuitively, we may say that stress thresholds are (at the very least) affected by circumstances of life. That is to say, someone who is born and raised in a middle American suburb far from violence might have a lower stress threshold than a Roman farmer who had to show up for military service every so often when the Celts or Samnites started raiding.

That being said, we still don't know all of the factors that go into making any one person's stress threshold. And it is when people encounter stress which breaks that threshold that causes PTSD, or one of the other traumatic stress disorders, so understanding an ancient soldier's stress threshold is pretty critical to determining if it would be likely for them to develop PTSD.

I like the above-posted articles, because they're attempting to locate ancient PTSD by reported symptoms rather than trying to extrapolate PTSD casualties from current reference points. Still, trying to determine psychological effects from so far in the past is certainly a tricky undertaking. I'm not certain if I'm 100 per cent behind the ancient PTSD theory just yet, but it does seem reasonable.
Nate Hanawalt

"Bonum commune communitatis"
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#8
We should separate mental "toughness" and a warrior's susceptibility to suffer the effects of PTSD as there are numerous cases of arguably "tough" soldiers that performed well over a long period of time in intense combat who later were thought to have PTSD. For Americans of the WW2 generation there was no tougher fighting man than Audie Murphy, who would later weep when he saw images of German orphans after the war and slept with a loaded pistol for the rest of his life. I'm sure every nation has their war heroes and I'd wager quite a few have some form of PTSD.
Joe Balmos
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#9
I agree, that is correct: mental "toughness" does not correlate to the stress threshold to which I was referring. The stress threshold is specifically a theoretical level beyond which a human being will suffer the effects of PTSD, regardless of toughness. After all, PTSD is a chemical imbalance in the brain caused by the body's fight or flight response; it really has nothing to do with how "tough" you might be, physically or mentally.

This is according to Dr. Tania Glenn, PsyD, at a training conference I recently attended.
Nate Hanawalt

"Bonum commune communitatis"
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#10
I recently debated this in regard to the american civil war.

Experiencing something horrible can give you problems, but that is not the only reason you get it.
Moral and religion also plays a part. And if the soldier feel guild or not.

And being in combat mode also effects your brain.

Being in combat effect the chemical balance in the brain. and simply having to be very alert do some of the same
In combat one day and you will quickly be back to normal physically.

Do so for five days, and it take more than 5 times as long to get back to normal.
(just like if you are stress... the longer your are, the harder it will be to get back to normal)

Problem with modern warfare where our troops walk daily patrols is that they day, after day after day they are in combat mode... So after 6 or even 12 month it can take years before they get back to normal... if ever.

The danish army uses a program of "normalization" where the soldiers during the first 3 month home daily do hours of sports, with the goal of making them tired... since this makes it easier to relax and sleep.
Another thing that helps is a very structures daily routine.
This have show it self to help the soldiers get out of "combat mode" and to relax.

So at least based on the danish experience with the war in Afghanistan days in combat is a clear factor.
So if you only fight a few days a year like the american civil war soldiers from 1861-64. (from summer 65 to the end we do see daily combat in the east) you are more likely to be able to calm down after a battle and get back to normal.

This do naturally not solve all problem, but it do help with the chemical balance in the brain.

Moral and religion:
Finish sniper Simo Häyhä is credited with 542 confirmed kills in just 98days during the winter war in 1940.
(and he often operated alone so the actual number is higher) and he never had any problems... because he was totally clear about why he did it. (his own explanation)

So Iam sure having people spit at your and calling you murder as some Vietnam veterans experiences clearly didn't help.
And living in a culture and with a religion that tell you that what you are doing is ok, very likely help.

Also if you do have a problem living in a military culture where men don't cry do not help in any way. get the soldier try to solve the problem himself... often with alcohol or drugs.

In the danish army there have been a huge focus on getting the soldiers to accept this as a way you can get hurt like a physical wound and there is no shame in it.
---

So did the roman legionaries have problem? I don't know,... but I find it hard to believe that no one did. But a culture and religion that supported what they did and not being in combat mode daily for month surly helped.
Thomas Aagaard
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#11
Hi

This might be of interest.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news...22/?no-ist

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#12
Let us not forget that PTSD - a 20th Century coined phrase - did not only apply to combatants but to civilians caught up in war as well. Despite living in far more brutal times when short life and violent death were part of every day existance, the violence or even the physical threat of violence impacts on everyone; there is an argument to be had that it is the fuel of revenge.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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