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Pompeii Sword Reconstruction Thread
#31
No need to worry then,you didn't get to a temp that will cause you any problems.
The first time I heat treated a long blade it warped a little and,even though I knew better I instinctively reached up and tried to *true* it up right out of the quench... ended up with a dagger and about 8 arrow heads :grin:

On the leather,to be honest I still am not sure... unless it is undeyed tooling leather I have a hard time spotting what is what, sorry.
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#32
Wow that is crazy!!! It broke in that many areas....wow :O

Yes, I will get my hands on some cow leather then. I believe about 3 oz should suffice.
Samuel J.
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#33
Oh yes indeed, get your hands on some say 1075 and heat it up bright red, quench that then, tap it with a hammer... almost like hitting a window with a hammer.
Mild steel (lower carbon) dosen't do this of course, to be honest I prefer it for my *beater* swords it may very well bend but, it isn't likley to break even if you fold it in half :grin:

Of course for staged combat where blade to blade contact is going to happen, mild is inappropriate.
You will quickly be holding a saw edged *blunt* sword.
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#34
Ah so what did qualities did the Roman swords have then?! Obviously they weren't literal glass metal, so they must have been forged mild.

Now the idea isn't to hit the other angrybird's sword, it is to push it deep into the enemy's vitals! I don't believe that slashing would have been common, or else a legionary must have gone through a sword per battle Tongue
Samuel J.
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#35
The brittleness is before you temper the blade, after it is quenched high carbon is as hard as it can be.
After this stage, you temper that softens the blade some but, also makes it tougher.

That's the very simplified explination of course, what we have today is quite a bit different than what the Romans used and, they used different types of steels themselves in many different ways.

From the research I've done so far,what we call mild steel today comes closest to the properties we would expect to find in many original blades, one with perhaps case hardened edge would be very close I think.
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#36
Quote:it is to push it deep into the enemy's vitals! I don't believe that slashing would have been common, or else a legionary must have gone through a sword per battle
:unsure:
The sources tell us quite different stories. The "the gladius is mostly a stabbing weapon" is a modern construction.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.

LEGIO XIII GEMINA

[Image: BannerAER-1-1.jpg]
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#37
I'd agree, wild slashes were not used, no, but short "nipping" slashes may have, something as simple as a twitch of the hand could gut somebody.
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#38
Edges would've been pretty pointless if they weren't used for cut and, thrust.
And... if they had been *pointless* wouldn't be very good for stabbing Wink
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#39
Quote:I'd agree, wild slashes were not used, no, but short "nipping" slashes may have, something as simple as a twitch of the hand could gut somebody.
I don´t know what you mean by "wild slashes", but as far as the sources go there were not just "short nipping slashes" made.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.

LEGIO XIII GEMINA

[Image: BannerAER-1-1.jpg]
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#40
Maybe it should be, compared to latter,longer swords the pompeii was a "short, nipping slasher" stabber too :grin:
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#41
hmmmmm… I think they were made to wound and kill. And any part of the blade could be used to do so. Of course the design is to stab and to stab with ease! Some have reported that it was only used for stabbing and not for slashing. Because the shield was used to block in one hand and the sword was in the other.
I don't know about you… but if i had to shuck my shield because it had spears through it, that sword is going to do more then stab. I would use it to block and defend as well as stab and slash.
Trained to stab a post… but on the battlefield that "Post" fights back! Of course it is not a fencing foil… but that blade is my best defense and offense and I would have to resort to using it as such.
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#42
Looking good Sam. I have mostly used a 6 inch wide belt sander while working night shifts to make mine. Then I use a grinding disc or flap disc to clean it up. I will need to do things differently now that I've changed jobs as we have no sander and I work all days. Too bad really. I could rough out a Pompeii in under two hours.

I will be following your project as it progresses. I think it's looking great.

I also used oak on a couple of hilts. It's beautiful to work with. Though I have been told the Romans commonly used holly, cherry, boxwood and basswood. I have a gorgeous piece of walnut that I will probably use as well. To heck with historical accuracy lol. I may give basswood a try as well.

Good luck!

Jim
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#43
Thank you Jim. I am going to check out what my hardwood supply depot has sometime and will look for any of those you mentioned. I like the oak too, and although the hilt hasn't been fastened together, I am unsure of durability. Also I am finding that oak gets dirty fairly easily with sweaty hands. :unsure:

So my next steps are ordering leather, and working out the brass accents. Today I have made good attempts at making steel female dies, and the idea is to place an annealed brass rod inside, and hammer it flat, punching in the design on the other side.

I do have the following questions:

- Does the pompeii chape and locket have "gutters" for the frames, or does the chape wrap around the scabbard as does the locket? It is rather hard to tell when people only show pictures of the fronts of their swords! WHAT'S TO HIDE?! :lol:

-What does a pompeii style hilt "washer" look like? This is the part the you peen the tang over with. Is it simple and cylindrical? Any pictures of originals?

-I am having trouble developing my tinning skills. Any tips, threads, or ideas on how to tin? I could order the tinning solution online. Or as what I have tried today was by 1. heating my brass sample 2. fluxing it 3. heating lead-free "silver bearing" solder on top 4. and trying to spread it out, having used a wet cloth and when that didn't work, found smoother results with a DRY one!!!

-The hilt is not yet tightened up and fastened together, but the grip seems to move a tiny bit. Will this be a problem when it is all fastened together? I am always afraid/cautious to apply too much pressure to the hilt in case the wood splits in the weaker areas.

-The customer would like me to use a makers mark on the sword. I was thinking of punching in using dots, Titus Marius Secundus. This is the name I use and was wondering if there was any specific way used to write that. For example, today we may write Titus M. Secundus.

Regards, and many thanks,

Samuel.
Samuel J.
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#44
This oatey tinning flux paste is what I've used and it works pretty well. Just get a flux brush and spread a thin layer on the metal and heat with a heat gun or a torch. If using a torch I would do it on the side of the metal that isn't being tinned though. If the layer is too thin just add some more and reheat. After the tinning wipe off the extra flux and then I like to shine it up a bit with some 00 steel wool. You can use something like nevr-dull to shine it after that. I've been using the normal but the water soluble would likely be easier to clean up.

http://www.amazon.com/Oatey-30142-Tinnin...ning+paste
Nathan Bickham
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#45
Hey Sam, about half length gutters that extend a little below the second cross band.

Washer can be a simple iron square circa 1/4 inch or something more elaborate,I like to use a piece of heavy brass rod and file it into a *mushroom* shape.

I'm working on a pompeii, when I put the hilt on I'll post some pics that will show the method better than I can write it.
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